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	<title>Comments on: Sexual education or sexualization?</title>
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	<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/</link>
	<description>If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3</description>
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		<title>By: elisabeth</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-1114831</link>
		<dc:creator>elisabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-1114831</guid>
		<description>thank you- I&#039;m linking an article back to you- your take on this is very concise, level and clear. I appreciate your trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you- I&#8217;m linking an article back to you- your take on this is very concise, level and clear. I appreciate your trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Principled Discovery &#187; State sex ed program prompts appeal to European Court of Human Rights</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-1082970</link>
		<dc:creator>Principled Discovery &#187; State sex ed program prompts appeal to European Court of Human Rights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 07:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-1082970</guid>
		<description>[...] the surface, nothing looks offensive.  It is certainly nothing like the last sex ed program out of Germany that caused such a stir.  The parent handbook, too, raises no particular concerns.  It is all [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the surface, nothing looks offensive.  It is certainly nothing like the last sex ed program out of Germany that caused such a stir.  The parent handbook, too, raises no particular concerns.  It is all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-1023038</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-1023038</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking to the PDF.
Interesting blog and interesting comment thread.
I have a young daughter and these are the sort of issues you have to wrestle with, even at age one... The most difficult thing of all, for me, is the constant doubt and fear that I am either a) passing on issues and repression I picked up from my parents when I was a toddler, or b) being reactive to those issues and thus creating new issues.
My honest opinion is that there are merits to BOTH the approach suggested in the brochure (i.e. including &quot;fun&quot; touching of the privates when &quot;fun&quot; touching of the rest of the body is taking place) AND ALSO the approach suggested by some in the comment thread of a slightly more &quot;anglo&quot; approach to the issue - namely, including the genitals in &quot;ordinary care&quot; - washing, drying etc, but excluding (only) those areas from &quot;fun&quot; touching.
Parents have to try to make the best choices for their kids in the context of an over-sexualised society, and a society with a (sometimes justified) terror of the paedophile stranger - there are no easy choices, and in this, as all other areas of parenting, I guess we should beware of trying to be too perfectionist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking to the PDF.<br />
Interesting blog and interesting comment thread.<br />
I have a young daughter and these are the sort of issues you have to wrestle with, even at age one&#8230; The most difficult thing of all, for me, is the constant doubt and fear that I am either a) passing on issues and repression I picked up from my parents when I was a toddler, or b) being reactive to those issues and thus creating new issues.<br />
My honest opinion is that there are merits to BOTH the approach suggested in the brochure (i.e. including &#8220;fun&#8221; touching of the privates when &#8220;fun&#8221; touching of the rest of the body is taking place) AND ALSO the approach suggested by some in the comment thread of a slightly more &#8220;anglo&#8221; approach to the issue &#8211; namely, including the genitals in &#8220;ordinary care&#8221; &#8211; washing, drying etc, but excluding (only) those areas from &#8220;fun&#8221; touching.<br />
Parents have to try to make the best choices for their kids in the context of an over-sexualised society, and a society with a (sometimes justified) terror of the paedophile stranger &#8211; there are no easy choices, and in this, as all other areas of parenting, I guess we should beware of trying to be too perfectionist.</p>
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		<title>By: Los Cuatro Ojos &#187; SWISS parents are being told they should help children masturbate&#8230; Wait A Minute!&#8230; HUH?!?!</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-96638</link>
		<dc:creator>Los Cuatro Ojos &#187; SWISS parents are being told they should help children masturbate&#8230; Wait A Minute!&#8230; HUH?!?!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-96638</guid>
		<description>[...] Read More HERE    and  HERE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read More HERE    and  HERE [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mommy zabs</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-2390</link>
		<dc:creator>mommy zabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 05:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-2390</guid>
		<description>Okay Your blog rocks!  This post is completely excellent.  I can&#039;t believe that first quote... that sounds like molestation to me!!  And brave new world is one of my favorites.  That is why motherhood is not a cussword is the title of my blog... coming from the concept of how they viewed motherhood in the book.  Most people have no clue what I am talking about though.&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m definitely bookmarking you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay Your blog rocks!  This post is completely excellent.  I can&#8217;t believe that first quote&#8230; that sounds like molestation to me!!  And brave new world is one of my favorites.  That is why motherhood is not a cussword is the title of my blog&#8230; coming from the concept of how they viewed motherhood in the book.  Most people have no clue what I am talking about though.<br />I&#8217;m definitely bookmarking you!</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-2389</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-2389</guid>
		<description>Rebecca, I didn&#039;t see your comment until after I responded to Shawna.  What you say is exactly the difference.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I didn&#039;t requote the article...that bit about the fathers touching their daughters in that way is definitely there...on the top of page 27.  It then goes on to tell us that their desire to explore others is natural (which is true).  And that they will have a special interest in the genitals of adults which may lead to the sexual stimulation of the adult.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That also is true, but they then wade into something that crosses some definite lines.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;It may be that certain intimate touches may be uncomfortable despite your acceptance of their childish curiousity, because your private area was unknowingly injured as a child.  A conflict may therefore develop between wanting to allow your child to explore and not wanting to set any unnecessary boundaries and your own refusal.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is nice that they say it is ok to say no, but please.  My &quot;discomfort&quot; with such exploration of my body has nothing to do with hypothetical sexual abuse as a child that I may not even know about (according to this brochure), and everything to do with the fact that this area is private.  There is nothing wrong with teaching a child that this area is private and not open to discovery.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Is the child &quot;nasty&quot; for that first curious touch?  Of course not.  But I am not denying my child anything by saying calmly, but firmly, &quot;That is mommy&#039;s.&quot; Instead, I am teaching her boundaries that she will need to protect herself, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca, I didn&#8217;t see your comment until after I responded to Shawna.  What you say is exactly the difference.  </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t requote the article&#8230;that bit about the fathers touching their daughters in that way is definitely there&#8230;on the top of page 27.  It then goes on to tell us that their desire to explore others is natural (which is true).  And that they will have a special interest in the genitals of adults which may lead to the sexual stimulation of the adult.</p>
<p>That also is true, but they then wade into something that crosses some definite lines.  </p>
<p>&#8220;It may be that certain intimate touches may be uncomfortable despite your acceptance of their childish curiousity, because your private area was unknowingly injured as a child.  A conflict may therefore develop between wanting to allow your child to explore and not wanting to set any unnecessary boundaries and your own refusal.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is nice that they say it is ok to say no, but please.  My &#8220;discomfort&#8221; with such exploration of my body has nothing to do with hypothetical sexual abuse as a child that I may not even know about (according to this brochure), and everything to do with the fact that this area is private.  There is nothing wrong with teaching a child that this area is private and not open to discovery.</p>
<p>Is the child &#8220;nasty&#8221; for that first curious touch?  Of course not.  But I am not denying my child anything by saying calmly, but firmly, &#8220;That is mommy&#8217;s.&#8221; Instead, I am teaching her boundaries that she will need to protect herself, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-2388</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-2388</guid>
		<description>Shawna, I don&#039;t disagree with you on anything you have said.  I think most of these issues are best handled in a matter-of-factual way, without shock or horror from the parents.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But that isn&#039;t exactly what the pamphlet advocates.  It advocates the specific caressing of these parts in a playful way, and not setting boundaries between peers who wish to examine each other.  It, along with the general approach to sexual education in Germany, advocates that the child should have the right to enjoy his sexuality.  Even as a toddler.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A child&#039;s self-discovery and curiosity is normal and shouldn&#039;t be treated as naughty or dirty.  However, that does not mean that I am &quot;repressing&quot; my children because I redirect them when they attempt to touch each other. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But then, I believe that sex is about a lot more than just pleasant sensations.  For the author of this pamphlet, that notion is repressive and I am denying my child something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shawna, I don&#8217;t disagree with you on anything you have said.  I think most of these issues are best handled in a matter-of-factual way, without shock or horror from the parents.</p>
<p>But that isn&#8217;t exactly what the pamphlet advocates.  It advocates the specific caressing of these parts in a playful way, and not setting boundaries between peers who wish to examine each other.  It, along with the general approach to sexual education in Germany, advocates that the child should have the right to enjoy his sexuality.  Even as a toddler.  </p>
<p>A child&#8217;s self-discovery and curiosity is normal and shouldn&#8217;t be treated as naughty or dirty.  However, that does not mean that I am &#8220;repressing&#8221; my children because I redirect them when they attempt to touch each other. </p>
<p>But then, I believe that sex is about a lot more than just pleasant sensations.  For the author of this pamphlet, that notion is repressive and I am denying my child something.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-2387</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-2387</guid>
		<description>I largely agree with you Shawna, but I think that the authors Dana is quoting have crossed a line which you have not and will not cross, and that you are making distinctions (normal care of the body vs. stimulation, between teaching that something is private and teaching that something is dirty or shameful) which they wish to obliterate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I largely agree with you Shawna, but I think that the authors Dana is quoting have crossed a line which you have not and will not cross, and that you are making distinctions (normal care of the body vs. stimulation, between teaching that something is private and teaching that something is dirty or shameful) which they wish to obliterate.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawna</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-2386</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-2386</guid>
		<description>I have not clicked the links--non of them.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That being said, and only having read what was presented here, I understand some of the outcry. Only in America is sex a taboo subject and that has always offended me. No, I do not want my children sexually active as children, but I also do not want them thinking sex is &quot;dirty&quot; nor &quot;naughty&quot; nor &quot;shameful&quot;...especially our female children--that aweful double standard that is so prevalent in our society here.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I want them to know that sex is natural and normal and yes, better if saved for that someone special they would like to spend their lives with.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Did I only touch my sons&#039; arms and tummys and toes when they were young--no. When they got out of bathes I dried their entire bodies and rubbed them with lotion until they were old enough to want to do it themselves--anywhere from 6-9 years old...touching all the parts, making no issue of any of them. All parts were named when they wanted to know what they were, squirming and giggling when they realized they were &quot;private&quot; parts yet knowing that mom and dad were not hurting nor doing bad things to them--just tending their care and getting them ready for bed or school or what-have-you. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Did my young boys touch themselves--of course. They all do. All children. Did I make issue of it? No. Generally they only did it al home when not dressed or changing or lying about in jammies--they fondled, nothing grotesque. In public or with people around they were fully clothed, making the act difficult and not really on their minds. When the discovery process was over and maturiry took place, natural socialization occured--they learn that touching theirselves in public wasn&#039;t going to win them favorable results/looks/views.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We do over react to our childrens&#039; developing sexual development in this country at times...or at least we do so publicly and at home behind closed doors we may allow other behaviors/thoughts to dominate?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sexuality and developing bodies and sensations are a natural process, so why do we frown upon them...why do we act so shocked and horrified. Why does America have the highest teen pregnancy rated in the industrialized world?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Granted the 1st article left me speechless--fondling and caressing genitals was way out there for me, beyond my comprehension...but the mere naming and casual touching of these parts in the caring of our children does not bother me; allowing our children to touch themselves does not bother me as they explore their own bodies--granted I do not want to witness or know about teenage boys and girls exploring and touching themselves! And I do understand how a child&#039;s pschye could be harmed when taught that these natural behaviors and curiosities and instincts are bad.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So I hope you all don&#039;t think I am some pervert--I am not. Truly, honestly--I am not!!!! I just do not find sex to be a taboo subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not clicked the links&#8211;non of them.</p>
<p>That being said, and only having read what was presented here, I understand some of the outcry. Only in America is sex a taboo subject and that has always offended me. No, I do not want my children sexually active as children, but I also do not want them thinking sex is &#8220;dirty&#8221; nor &#8220;naughty&#8221; nor &#8220;shameful&#8221;&#8230;especially our female children&#8211;that aweful double standard that is so prevalent in our society here.</p>
<p>I want them to know that sex is natural and normal and yes, better if saved for that someone special they would like to spend their lives with.</p>
<p>Did I only touch my sons&#8217; arms and tummys and toes when they were young&#8211;no. When they got out of bathes I dried their entire bodies and rubbed them with lotion until they were old enough to want to do it themselves&#8211;anywhere from 6-9 years old&#8230;touching all the parts, making no issue of any of them. All parts were named when they wanted to know what they were, squirming and giggling when they realized they were &#8220;private&#8221; parts yet knowing that mom and dad were not hurting nor doing bad things to them&#8211;just tending their care and getting them ready for bed or school or what-have-you. </p>
<p>Did my young boys touch themselves&#8211;of course. They all do. All children. Did I make issue of it? No. Generally they only did it al home when not dressed or changing or lying about in jammies&#8211;they fondled, nothing grotesque. In public or with people around they were fully clothed, making the act difficult and not really on their minds. When the discovery process was over and maturiry took place, natural socialization occured&#8211;they learn that touching theirselves in public wasn&#8217;t going to win them favorable results/looks/views.</p>
<p>We do over react to our childrens&#8217; developing sexual development in this country at times&#8230;or at least we do so publicly and at home behind closed doors we may allow other behaviors/thoughts to dominate?</p>
<p>Sexuality and developing bodies and sensations are a natural process, so why do we frown upon them&#8230;why do we act so shocked and horrified. Why does America have the highest teen pregnancy rated in the industrialized world?</p>
<p>Granted the 1st article left me speechless&#8211;fondling and caressing genitals was way out there for me, beyond my comprehension&#8230;but the mere naming and casual touching of these parts in the caring of our children does not bother me; allowing our children to touch themselves does not bother me as they explore their own bodies&#8211;granted I do not want to witness or know about teenage boys and girls exploring and touching themselves! And I do understand how a child&#8217;s pschye could be harmed when taught that these natural behaviors and curiosities and instincts are bad.</p>
<p>So I hope you all don&#8217;t think I am some pervert&#8211;I am not. Truly, honestly&#8211;I am not!!!! I just do not find sex to be a taboo subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2007/08/12/sexual-education-or-sexualization/comment-page-1/#comment-2385</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=583#comment-2385</guid>
		<description>Someone in another discussion said it sounds more like this is about breaking down taboos than state sanctioned pedophilia.  Which is true in a way.  It certainly isn&#039;t a three step guide to becoming a pedophile.  But I would argue that touching your child in that way is still molestation, even if your goal is to stimulate the child rather than yourself.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And I cannot help but wonder, why on earth would anyone think it ok for the state to get in the business of breaking down &quot;taboos?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone in another discussion said it sounds more like this is about breaking down taboos than state sanctioned pedophilia.  Which is true in a way.  It certainly isn&#8217;t a three step guide to becoming a pedophile.  But I would argue that touching your child in that way is still molestation, even if your goal is to stimulate the child rather than yourself.</p>
<p>And I cannot help but wonder, why on earth would anyone think it ok for the state to get in the business of breaking down &#8220;taboos?&#8221;</p>
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