I wasn’t going to post on this. I have had enough of shootings for the moment. (In case you haven’t heard about it yet, there was another shooting, this time in a missionary training center and a mega church in Colorado. By a young man who was homeschooled in a Christian family.) But a comment over on Why Homeschool’s entry, Homeschooler gone bad story, bothers me. mrs. dani (no link) writes:
So this kids was homeschooled the last THREE years of his education. What about the other 10? He was a product of the public school system. So if he was in a school setting the majority of his life….mmmm……Yup, that public schooling just makes kids stir-crazy.
There is no link indicating where she gets this information about how long the shooter was homeschooled. The only information I can find says there is no record of him attending school in his district where the family has lived for ten years. And that he had been kicked out of the missionary training program three years prior which may be the source of the confusion. But it is irrelevant. If this young man were fully public educated, it would be irrelevant.
The public school has a variety of issues, but it does not turn children into wanton killers who write,
“I’m coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. …God, I can’t wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don’t care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you … as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world,” CNN.com
just after murdering two people and before heading on to murder yet more.
This is NOT an educational issue, but a mental health issue. Months of strange behavior culminating in what was described as a bizarre performance which had workers “pretty scared” led to him being removed from the missionary training program. A bunk mate of his said he would “roll around in bed making noises.”
“He would say, ‘Don’t worry, I’m just talking to the voices,’ ” Werner said. “He’d say, ‘Don’t worry, Richard. You’re a nice guy. The voices like you.’ ” CNN.com
This is not the picture of a homeschooled youth or a public schooled youth. It is the picture of a mentally ill young man.
[tags]Murray, Arvada, New Life Church, Youth With a Mission[/tags]
Principled Discovery is a place to stop and discuss news and information related to faith, family and particularly education. Pour yourself a cup of tea and join the conversation! 
Do you think there is fuel there to for people to say, “If he had been in school, then someone -who is professionally trained- would have recognized there was something wrong with the young man, and gotten him the help he needed?”
Nah, on second thought, he was 24 years old. and may not have displayed signs of mental illness before he was 18.
~Christy
Very true, Christy. Maybe someone could have noticed something, maybe not. No one noticed anything with the young man who shot people at a mall here in NE. Nor in any of the school shooting cases. I think part of it is because even when you see the signs, no one really thinks it is possible. But part of it is because what is the alternative, really? Institutionalize everyone who ever displays odd behavior?
People did notice problems. Apparently he was even offered help from some counselors in response to some of his postings.
Anyone can use these things to further their own agendas, but if we want to know why, we may have to accept that there is no way to absolutely prevent these kinds of things.
I agree - this is a mental health issue. What bothers me, though, is that whenever a homeschooler commits a crime, the fact of his homeschooling is mentioned in the article. However, we do not see articles that say, “So and so, who attended public shool, did such and such.” Why do they feel the need to mention his homeschooling background, unless they are implying that it is somehow connected to the shooting?
yep, you’re totally right. This wasn’t a homeschool issue, but a sad, sad mental health issue.
thanks for posting it. Even if you didn’t want to.
I agree with the fact that public or private school really probably aren’t related with this case. He sounded absolutely mentally ill…it’s just too bad something wasn’t done FOR him before it got to this point. It’s just tragic…
I am not subject to the constant rehashing of these stories on television, so I don’t know what the endless commentary is saying, but so far I am not upset by any of the reporting I have seen. The more thorough reports list a long string of unrelated details which seem to only serve to try to get a picture of who this young man was.
Deanna, I agree. I wish he had gotten some help. But at this point, he was an adult and years past being the direct responsibility of anyone. That is always the thought when these things happen, but how much is possible? The man responsible for the Virginia Tech shootings had been referred for counseling. Help was given. And it still occurred. The young man responsible for the shootings in Omaha had been a ward of the state with a whole system designed to help with mental health issues. But no one realized things were “that bad.”
We cannot see into someone’s mind. But we also have to be careful about stigmatizing everyone with mental health issues. Most are not dangerous.
This morning I perused the site on which he posted the rant as well as quite a few other posts over the past year or two, and it was disturbing to say the least. I found it both interesting and disturbing that *he* seemed to believe that the strict religious system in which he was raised (Gothardism) and his homeschooling experience and sheltered life caused the extreme rejection and isolation from society that he felt and was the reason for his hostility toward Christianity.
I’m mainly just pondering with my keyboard here and trying to make sense of this. But after reading the killer’s own words I’m now wondering whether his homeschooling might be more relevant to the discussion than I would normally have suspected. It doesn’t change the fact that he killed because of some mental illness. But when something like this happens, it’s natural to want to know why and what other factors might have contributed to it, since the majority of mentally ill people don’t go on killing sprees either.
I guess all I’m saying is that although I agree that his education shouldn’t matter, I don’t think it’s unfair to even question whether his upbringing, the homeschooling included, might have been one of many secondary factors that ultimately led him to snap, if only because of his own perceptions about how greatly it influenced him. The public school system’s failure to prevent bullying and exclusion was scrutinized and discussed in the aftermath of Columbine, so it’s not like education is never considered an issue unless homeschooling is involved, although granted, homeschooling certainly comes up more often.
In the end, it doesn’t even matter, so I don’t know why I put myself through all the grief of trying to figure out why something like this could happen, especially so close to home. He made the decision and he is the one responsible for the deaths.
Dana,
I can always count on you to have a completely sane and well-reasoned take on the craziness that is this world. Thanks for posting.
Thank you making this plain. Individuals often try to place blame on external influences.
Shauna, you may be right. Homeschooling as an institution cannot be blamed, but we don’t know his individual situation. Even there, however, you are reaching an issue of abuse if it is accurate.
The difficulty I have is that it is natural to blame the environment. I am not saying this is the issue here…I have no idea…but with Andrea Yeats, she was having delusions. They took on a religious nature because she was religious. It is equally likely that this particular man was, in his illness, lashing out at what he knew. A different situation may have led only to a different motivation.
Does that make any sense?
What a great post and what an equally great discussion. Such interesting points.
Thanks, Dana, for a very thoughtful post. And thanks everyone else for adding your 2 cents.
All of this is hitting a bit close to home as my daughter is, at this very moment, locked down in her Northern Illinois University dormitory during finals week as a result of threats of violence made by a fellow student.
Sin makes people do bad things. We live in a fallen, sinful world. It is our job as parents to help our children learn to overcome sin and to lead upright, productive lives. Parents from every walk of life sometimes fail to do this. Parents who homeschool sometimes fail. Parents who send their children to school sometimes fail.
Just as we hate it when the media makes an issue of the fact that a killer like this was homeschooled, we should not blame public school when a young person commits a crime.
I agree…this is not an educational issue, but a mental health issue. Thanks, Dana.
Yes, Dana, that makes sense. As much sense as things like this can make, anyway.
Linda, that is frightening. I am sorry and pray whoever is making the threat is apprehended and gets the help they need. The whole nature of copycat murders is also sickening and tied closely to the amount of attention these things get which is part of why I originally did not want to even step into this. But so long as I do blog about it, he will not be named. As if that really mattered, but I don’t even know any of the victims names. Or at least I won’t a month from now.
Shauna, I think there may be more in your comment, but I don’t know how I want to approach it.
I agree with the general consensus here that the issue is one of mental illness as opposed to one of where/how the shooter was educated.
I also agree that when someone who was homeschooled does something terrible like this, the fact of his homeschooling is unfairly highlighted as if it has some kind of special bearing on his behavior.
But I’d like to suggest a possible reason why this is so. It seems to me that homeschooling, whether correctly or not, is associated moreso with responsible, engaged, and nurturing parenting than any other kind of schooling. Because of this, the expectation is that homeschooled children have grown up surrounded by loving and caring and involved parents. This makes any kind of violent and sociopathic behavior seem inconsistent with what is perceived as the homeschooled environment. Furthermore, even if the violent and sociopathic behavior is the product of mental illness and not because of issues of parental abandonment or abuse, I think it comes as a shock to people that such a mental illness would go undetected and untreated by parents that, by virtue of homeschooling, are perceived to be so caring and engaged in their child’s life.
Of course, I know that it is unfair to think that homeschooling is always and everywhere a sign of a healthy and loving home environment. And I also know that even in the most healthy and loving environment, people with mental illnesses (even those receiving treatment) can still do horrible things. I’m just trying to imagine why it is that someone’s homeschooling always tends to be overplayed in media coverage of such tragic events for which he is responsible.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Huck. At this point, I haven’t seen any unfair “playing” of the homeschooling issue in this case (but like I said, we don’t have television so I am not hearing it all day from every angle and every pundit.) It is just a detail along with a list of others.
I think I see what you are saying in the “they were very religious” comment…the people saying it probably are expressing shock that such a faithful family could end up with a tragedy like this. Whether or not that applies also to homeschooling depends very much on how it is actually presented.
But often we see what we expect to see. Homeschoolers are used to being maligned in the media so it can be easy to see it where it isn’t intended to be such. Some people also see homeschooling as a way to isolate children, control them and hide abuse. So when they see a case like this, they see it as a natural consequence.
We’ll see how it plays out, I guess. You do make a good point that we should be conscious of.
Dana,
Perhaps I should be following the rule, if you don’t have something nice to type… but I think it is an important issue. I don’t have a TV either and it seems you have read far more about this young man than I have so my comment is more general than specific ~
But, my daughter has been followed by Children’s Mental Health since before she was placed in my home. She is medicated everyday to prevent her from having rages. In her last year of public school an entire classroom had to be evacuated because she was out of control. I am not really unbiased and perhaps I am over-sensitive. What I have found in the homeschooling and Christian community is almost a denial that mental illness is real. Behavioral problems are all blamed on sin. I cannot tell you how often people who have never walked in my shoes take issue with my medicating my child or how often I have read blog entries in the homeschooling community addressing the issue of medication for childhood behavioral problems.
I don’t know what environmental and genetic factors have to combine to cause mental illness, but it isn’t just one thing. And, when someone is mentally ill, their thinking is not logical. This young man indeed may have blamed his church, parents, education, etc. for his dark thoughts and ultimately his decision to kill innocent people. But, sane people don’t think like that.
Julie, I agree. I have a whole post in my head, but I am struggling to bring it together into something coherent. So I guess you can look forward to that.
I love the discussion here. It is refreshing to read something where people are thinking and not just ranting!
I agree in general that we cannot jump to conclusions that his “homeschooling” had anything to do with his actions.
And, Dana, I also have not noticed the issue being treated unfairly, and I also am without a television!
ThirstyJon
And Shauna, having now read considerably more, I think that if what he says is true, a pretty good case for abuse could be made. There seems to have been a lot of control and a lot of physical abuse…
Thank you, ThirstyJon.
While I don’t believe the media has tried to make home education a significant factor in this man’s crime, I have read some reader responses to news accounts of this linking homeschooling to Murray’s mental state. It seems to escape folks that this grown man was 24 years old, not a minor child. That there were enough other issues involved that make the method with which he was taught to read, add, and subtract absolutely moot. There were problems in his life that are not endemic to public schoolers, homeschoolers, blondes, or astronauts.
Julie, I personally haven’t seen much of the attitude that mental health issues aren’t valid amongst the homeschooling community, and when I have, it was more an over-reaction to the public school system attempting to drug children for every twitch and wiggle, instead of addressing lifestyle and behavioral factors, such as diet, exercise, and proper sleep. I am sorry to hear that have not found more support for your situation.
While I don’t think there is anything wrong with the idea that many problems that kids have are linked to such factors as improper diet and sleep deprivation, that does not eliminate the reality of serious mental health issues in children, and those should be addressed with compassion, not condemnation.
Sunnymom, you are right in reader reactions. I have seen that as well. But that can’t be helped, really.
I have seen the same thing Julie is talking about in some circles. I wouldn’t generalize the issue saying it is a “Christian” issue, but there are some circles within Christianity that do seem to believe that all mental health issues are spiritual in nature. I am on several e-lists and on a couple of them, challenging the need to ever medicate someone for mental health issues comes up, and someone always tries to link whatever disaster has occurred to whatever medication they think the person may have been taking.
The reasoning given was the scriptural command to stay away from “pharmakia,” generally translated as witchcraft in the bible, but meaning drugs (Gal 5:20, Rev 9:21, etc.) I’ve seen total strangers online criticize people who have begun taking medication for depression, bring up these verses and question people’s salvation because if you were walking with the Lord, you wouldn’t be having these spiritual problems. It isn’t mainstream, and I don’t think it is a problem within the broader scope of evangelical Christianity, but I have seen what Julie is talking about, especially among the more conservative and isolating groups within Christianity.
Dana, thank you. You are much more articulate than I am!
I agree with Sunnymom’s first paragraph about how people are forgetting that he was 24, not a child, so schooling would be irrelevant by that time.
As far as the mental illness thing, I haven’t cross a home schooling family that blatantly denies it exists or looks down on those who medicate for it.
I’m sure they do exist, though. As with any group, there will always be those that disagree with certain things. I don’t like to categorize any group for any reason.
I haven’t read this man’s postings, but from what everyone else is saying, it is obvious there were mental issues at play. His upbringing could have caused it. Then again, he could have been born that way.
All I know is the event was very tragic and I pray for all that were affected by the outcome.
Sorry for the typo. My third sentence above should read “haven’t come across”, not haven’t cross”. LOL”
Mommy2Lots, I wouldn’t say it is widespread, and I certainly wouldn’t characterize any group by such beliefs. But I have seen it. I don’t think it is an issue in this case. It sounds like he was under some sort of treatment for depression.
It is difficult to decipher anything from his writings. On the one hand, he paints a pretty horrific picture. On the other, someone who is mentally ill is not reasoning properly and sees the world differently. And they can be remarkably manipulative, making it difficult for people around them to really know how troubled they are.
Even with abuse, however, murdering random people without remorse isn’t really a rational response. I think there are likely a combination of factors. But I also still believe that a different environment may have only meant a different motivation. I don’t know.