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	<title>Comments on: Student, Interrupted:  How universities are treating the mentally ill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/</link>
	<description>If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4192</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4192</guid>
		<description>Hey, I'm all for dismissing students who actually pose a threat, especially to others.  There is more to the first case as she was tremendously more disruptive than merely walking  out.  A fit of screaming lasted several minutes and stopped several classes.  But even her professor tried  to lobby on her behalf.  I think she may be right in her comparison to someone with epilepsy.

But seeking help for bulimia?  Depression? How is this more disruptive and dangerous than binge drinking?  Hazing?  Staying up all night for three days running, subsisting on coffee and chocolate bars?  (That was my college "experience!")

Universities have a responsibility to act on things which have happened and turn threats over to the proper authorities.  But to try to guess who is going to snap?  There shouldn't be a liability issue here unless the student clearly threatens someone and the university fails to do anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m all for dismissing students who actually pose a threat, especially to others.  There is more to the first case as she was tremendously more disruptive than merely walking  out.  A fit of screaming lasted several minutes and stopped several classes.  But even her professor tried  to lobby on her behalf.  I think she may be right in her comparison to someone with epilepsy.</p>
<p>But seeking help for bulimia?  Depression? How is this more disruptive and dangerous than binge drinking?  Hazing?  Staying up all night for three days running, subsisting on coffee and chocolate bars?  (That was my college &#8220;experience!&#8221;)</p>
<p>Universities have a responsibility to act on things which have happened and turn threats over to the proper authorities.  But to try to guess who is going to snap?  There shouldn&#8217;t be a liability issue here unless the student clearly threatens someone and the university fails to do anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Life On The Planet</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4191</link>
		<dc:creator>Life On The Planet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4191</guid>
		<description>Let's keep those expectations low, shall we, Dana?:)

Certainly, Universities have an obligation to keep all students safe. If a student is regarded to be a threat to other students or themselves, then by all means they should be removed from campus (hopefully to a setting that they can receive mental health).

However, by removing students at the first sign of mental illness, or threatening them with dismissal, they are putting themselves on shaky legal ground. Also, they should be concerned about the issue of patient confidentiality between University counselors and students. They may be walking a fine line there. 

Of course, since the Universities are in a darned-if-you-do, darned-if-you-don't position, they may have just decided to err on the side of doing. Given the sited legal cases, I can't really blame them.

Although, as Susan said, they don't get as worked up about the binge drinking that is so prevalent on campuses. If they're that worried about minimizing liability, you would think that would be more of an issue.

The psychology of University asministrators is a case study in itself. More caffeine is needed before broaching that topic.

I told you, Dana, low expectations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s keep those expectations low, shall we, Dana?:)</p>
<p>Certainly, Universities have an obligation to keep all students safe. If a student is regarded to be a threat to other students or themselves, then by all means they should be removed from campus (hopefully to a setting that they can receive mental health).</p>
<p>However, by removing students at the first sign of mental illness, or threatening them with dismissal, they are putting themselves on shaky legal ground. Also, they should be concerned about the issue of patient confidentiality between University counselors and students. They may be walking a fine line there. </p>
<p>Of course, since the Universities are in a darned-if-you-do, darned-if-you-don&#8217;t position, they may have just decided to err on the side of doing. Given the sited legal cases, I can&#8217;t really blame them.</p>
<p>Although, as Susan said, they don&#8217;t get as worked up about the binge drinking that is so prevalent on campuses. If they&#8217;re that worried about minimizing liability, you would think that would be more of an issue.</p>
<p>The psychology of University asministrators is a case study in itself. More caffeine is needed before broaching that topic.</p>
<p>I told you, Dana, low expectations.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4190</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4190</guid>
		<description>I am reading a book now- "Success Without College" by Linda Lee (and I highly recommend it) and one major repeated complaint of college professors is that kids view college as a 'sow yer wild oats' time of their lives- kind of an interlude before adulthood where they get to pretend they are children for a few more years before they 'get serious' about life.

IMO this contributes to the unbalanced atmosphere at institutions of higher learning- these are legal adults being treated as if they are minor children. Colleges and universities should have policies in place to deal with destructive and illegal behaviors, and these policies should be swiftly enforced. But they can't seem to differentiate between someone having a few difficulties, and those who are truly troubled. It's more zero tolerance nonsense, where all problems are treated the same, regardless of the circumstances.

Anecdote: Although I was considered a 'good kid', I had a bad temper as a child- in high school I stomped out of class and threw my books off a balcony after a disagreement with a teacher. I was not disciplined, as I went straight to the principal and said "Uncle Jerry, I just did a bad thing". I apologized to the teacher I nearly killed (my algebra book missed Mr. Reed by inches) and life went on. My past history of good grades and decent behavior was taken into consideration, although I believe they &lt;i&gt;should have&lt;/i&gt; punished me. I wonder what would happen to me in today's school environment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reading a book now- &#8220;Success Without College&#8221; by Linda Lee (and I highly recommend it) and one major repeated complaint of college professors is that kids view college as a &#8217;sow yer wild oats&#8217; time of their lives- kind of an interlude before adulthood where they get to pretend they are children for a few more years before they &#8216;get serious&#8217; about life.</p>
<p>IMO this contributes to the unbalanced atmosphere at institutions of higher learning- these are legal adults being treated as if they are minor children. Colleges and universities should have policies in place to deal with destructive and illegal behaviors, and these policies should be swiftly enforced. But they can&#8217;t seem to differentiate between someone having a few difficulties, and those who are truly troubled. It&#8217;s more zero tolerance nonsense, where all problems are treated the same, regardless of the circumstances.</p>
<p>Anecdote: Although I was considered a &#8216;good kid&#8217;, I had a bad temper as a child- in high school I stomped out of class and threw my books off a balcony after a disagreement with a teacher. I was not disciplined, as I went straight to the principal and said &#8220;Uncle Jerry, I just did a bad thing&#8221;. I apologized to the teacher I nearly killed (my algebra book missed Mr. Reed by inches) and life went on. My past history of good grades and decent behavior was taken into consideration, although I believe they <i>should have</i> punished me. I wonder what would happen to me in today&#8217;s school environment!</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Ryan</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4189</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4189</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;St. Norbert would not take action against students who quietly battle their own demons, said Jay Fostner, a vice president at the school. But it would move against students who repeatedly pull classmates or faculty into their suffering.&lt;/i&gt;

How noble of these school administrators.  Even as they ignore the classmates who are pulled into the binge drinking, et al consequences of the embedded campus life.  But there are those campus town businesses that sell intoxicants to underage kids with a conveniently turned head from many.

&lt;i&gt;But Pomerleau said her grades were good and she had been commended by the college for performing community service. Her suicide attempt in September followed a change in medication, which, according to her doctor, has since been corrected.&lt;/i&gt;

And the doctor's punishment?!  One has to wonder if she was given off-label drugs that caused her suicidal tendencies.  Incredible that her trust in the doctor's prescription wisdom changed her life around physically and in real location and plans.

Wish this was uncommon in what happens to these kids, but it's not.  What Amy said in the first comment is true.  It's not about the kids, that's for certain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>St. Norbert would not take action against students who quietly battle their own demons, said Jay Fostner, a vice president at the school. But it would move against students who repeatedly pull classmates or faculty into their suffering.</i></p>
<p>How noble of these school administrators.  Even as they ignore the classmates who are pulled into the binge drinking, et al consequences of the embedded campus life.  But there are those campus town businesses that sell intoxicants to underage kids with a conveniently turned head from many.</p>
<p><i>But Pomerleau said her grades were good and she had been commended by the college for performing community service. Her suicide attempt in September followed a change in medication, which, according to her doctor, has since been corrected.</i></p>
<p>And the doctor&#8217;s punishment?!  One has to wonder if she was given off-label drugs that caused her suicidal tendencies.  Incredible that her trust in the doctor&#8217;s prescription wisdom changed her life around physically and in real location and plans.</p>
<p>Wish this was uncommon in what happens to these kids, but it&#8217;s not.  What Amy said in the first comment is true.  It&#8217;s not about the kids, that&#8217;s for certain.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4188</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4188</guid>
		<description>Hmm...at least I'm not Charlie Brown, I guess.  I shall await your stunning insight with great anticipation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230;at least I&#8217;m not Charlie Brown, I guess.  I shall await your stunning insight with great anticipation.</p>
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		<title>By: Life On The Planet</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4187</link>
		<dc:creator>Life On The Planet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4187</guid>
		<description>I think it must be too late for me to comment here. My eyes are reading your comments, but my brain is hearing Charlie Brown's teacher. I'll save my minor in psychology for in the morning. Good night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it must be too late for me to comment here. My eyes are reading your comments, but my brain is hearing Charlie Brown&#8217;s teacher. I&#8217;ll save my minor in psychology for in the morning. Good night.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4186</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4186</guid>
		<description>Jennifer, you are absolutely right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer, you are absolutely right.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4185</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4185</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;In order to qualify for services Marissa’s IQ would need to be less than 70...&lt;/em&gt;

I had a young man like that in my class...except without any behavior issues or other diagnoses.  His IQ was 70.  There was nothing anyone could do...state mandates required me to teach him to grade level.  No services, no realistic assessment regarding what he was capable of and needed to achieve.

So he wasted his time copying letters, repeating their sounds only to forget them the second he was finished.  He will be completely lost because he doesn't qualify for anything, yet cannot keep up with a normal classroom environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>In order to qualify for services Marissa’s IQ would need to be less than 70&#8230;</em></p>
<p>I had a young man like that in my class&#8230;except without any behavior issues or other diagnoses.  His IQ was 70.  There was nothing anyone could do&#8230;state mandates required me to teach him to grade level.  No services, no realistic assessment regarding what he was capable of and needed to achieve.</p>
<p>So he wasted his time copying letters, repeating their sounds only to forget them the second he was finished.  He will be completely lost because he doesn&#8217;t qualify for anything, yet cannot keep up with a normal classroom environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer in OR</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4182</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer in OR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4182</guid>
		<description>And I forgot to mention that since the fast growing atheist segment of our culture views religion and those who adhere to it, especially Christians, as "delusional," then certainly I would be barred from college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I forgot to mention that since the fast growing atheist segment of our culture views religion and those who adhere to it, especially Christians, as &#8220;delusional,&#8221; then certainly I would be barred from college.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer in OR</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/01/15/student-interrupted-how-universities-are-treating-the-mentally-ill/#comment-4181</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer in OR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=771#comment-4181</guid>
		<description>To answer your question about what could happen if TeenScreen becomes widely accepted as an identifier of mental illness - given the known consequences of Higher Education going hands off, as you just reported, I would expect that many individuals will be denied a higher education. All based on a possible future risk. Sounds vaguely familiar. For example, the countless Japanese-American citizens post WWII who were interned, and those who were in college - most were forced to leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer your question about what could happen if TeenScreen becomes widely accepted as an identifier of mental illness - given the known consequences of Higher Education going hands off, as you just reported, I would expect that many individuals will be denied a higher education. All based on a possible future risk. Sounds vaguely familiar. For example, the countless Japanese-American citizens post WWII who were interned, and those who were in college - most were forced to leave.</p>
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