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	<title>Comments on: CA and the state&#8217;s interest in secular education</title>
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	<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/</link>
	<description>If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-221478</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-221478</guid>
		<description>That is something the courts need to figure out.  Substantiated allegations in the past have led to imprisonment and loss of custody.  The parents have had them returned after doing certain things and other children have become adults while in the system.  I can't make a case that nothing has been done and if the departments currently responsible for the welfare of the children have determined that it is time for them to be home, then their experience is probably a little more reliable than my interpretation of old court documents.

The state is generally very slow to remove children from the home and that really is the way it should be...we wouldn't want a lightning fast CPS investigating after a false allegation, for example.

I (and I'm sure most others who have read through the court papers) would support this family not being allowed to homeschool...and some say that is all this court case really says.)  I'm no expert on CA law and what the judges did or did not consider, but it seems to go beyond that in some of the language.  That, however, looks like it will be satisfied soon with perhaps more clarity for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is something the courts need to figure out.  Substantiated allegations in the past have led to imprisonment and loss of custody.  The parents have had them returned after doing certain things and other children have become adults while in the system.  I can&#8217;t make a case that nothing has been done and if the departments currently responsible for the welfare of the children have determined that it is time for them to be home, then their experience is probably a little more reliable than my interpretation of old court documents.</p>
<p>The state is generally very slow to remove children from the home and that really is the way it should be&#8230;we wouldn&#8217;t want a lightning fast CPS investigating after a false allegation, for example.</p>
<p>I (and I&#8217;m sure most others who have read through the court papers) would support this family not being allowed to homeschool&#8230;and some say that is all this court case really says.)  I&#8217;m no expert on CA law and what the judges did or did not consider, but it seems to go beyond that in some of the language.  That, however, looks like it will be satisfied soon with perhaps more clarity for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-221424</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-221424</guid>
		<description>If these abuse allegations have been proven, where is the outcry that the Long children have not been removed from their home?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If these abuse allegations have been proven, where is the outcry that the Long children have not been removed from their home?</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-212955</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 03:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-212955</guid>
		<description>Hey, I have no problems with bias.  What I have problems with is when someone claims to be objective when they are not.  We'd all do better to recognize we have bias, to state them up front and discuss accordingly. : )

You did a nice job on it, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I have no problems with bias.  What I have problems with is when someone claims to be objective when they are not.  We&#8217;d all do better to recognize we have bias, to state them up front and discuss accordingly. : )</p>
<p>You did a nice job on it, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-212504</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-212504</guid>
		<description>WND is one of those sources which the reader has to take things with huge bucketful (not a grain!) of salt. I wasn't sure what was actually going on after I read the article on Saturday so that's why I looked up the full court ruling &#38; posted it to my blog. 

I did try to keep my initial blog post factual and save commentary for later posts. Obviously it's difficult to be completely objective when reporting on something about which I feel strongly, but I tried my best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WND is one of those sources which the reader has to take things with huge bucketful (not a grain!) of salt. I wasn&#8217;t sure what was actually going on after I read the article on Saturday so that&#8217;s why I looked up the full court ruling &amp; posted it to my blog. </p>
<p>I did try to keep my initial blog post factual and save commentary for later posts. Obviously it&#8217;s difficult to be completely objective when reporting on something about which I feel strongly, but I tried my best.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-212246</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-212246</guid>
		<description>Right, the trial court did find for the parents and for their "constitutional right to homeshcool" which is what the appellate court remanded back to the trial court as "an error of law."  Which actually, it was in some respects.

The rest of the appellate opining is indeed troublesome language, but ultimately not binding on this family much less other hsers, IF the legal question about the CA Education Code is resolved as I see it almost certainly must be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, the trial court did find for the parents and for their &#8220;constitutional right to homeshcool&#8221; which is what the appellate court remanded back to the trial court as &#8220;an error of law.&#8221;  Which actually, it was in some respects.</p>
<p>The rest of the appellate opining is indeed troublesome language, but ultimately not binding on this family much less other hsers, IF the legal question about the CA Education Code is resolved as I see it almost certainly must be.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211964</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211964</guid>
		<description>But from the link you provided, it looks as if the court found for the parents ultimately.  But it is not uncommon to find for the parents but put safety plans in place.  Of which mandating a different educational environment in that case wouldn't be out of line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But from the link you provided, it looks as if the court found for the parents ultimately.  But it is not uncommon to find for the parents but put safety plans in place.  Of which mandating a different educational environment in that case wouldn&#8217;t be out of line.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211946</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211946</guid>
		<description>From what I've read, I have little doubt that this particular family has problems.  The court was entirely justified in saying they couldn't homeschool, I think.

But that isn't exactly what the ruling says.  Which complicates things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;ve read, I have little doubt that this particular family has problems.  The court was entirely justified in saying they couldn&#8217;t homeschool, I think.</p>
<p>But that isn&#8217;t exactly what the ruling says.  Which complicates things.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211811</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211811</guid>
		<description>Looks like this case started with a 14-year-old runaway girl. . .see Annette Hall's latest update &lt;a href="http://localhs.com/scuttle/2008/03/no-place-to-go.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

And of course every person should choose, weigh what we can and will do for ourselves and what we decide to seek help with, from whatever source. I'm firm and consistent about that position in all matters educational and not. :)

I've never been much of a joiner, especially political interest groups, unions and social alliances for causes. I may be unusually independent in that regard, very DIY.  Heck, I am eligible but won't even join the AARP as an interest group to represent me as a citizen who happens to be over 50 . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like this case started with a 14-year-old runaway girl. . .see Annette Hall&#8217;s latest update <a href="http://localhs.com/scuttle/2008/03/no-place-to-go.asp" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>And of course every person should choose, weigh what we can and will do for ourselves and what we decide to seek help with, from whatever source. I&#8217;m firm and consistent about that position in all matters educational and not. <img src='http://principleddiscovery.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never been much of a joiner, especially political interest groups, unions and social alliances for causes. I may be unusually independent in that regard, very DIY.  Heck, I am eligible but won&#8217;t even join the AARP as an interest group to represent me as a citizen who happens to be over 50 . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211550</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211550</guid>
		<description>Thank you, M.E.  I thought the whole thing was interesting.  It cited a few cases which are normally cited by homeschool advocates.  Which may rest on the fact they appeared to have poor representation in their court appointed attorney who didn't know anything about homeschooling or the organizations involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, M.E.  I thought the whole thing was interesting.  It cited a few cases which are normally cited by homeschool advocates.  Which may rest on the fact they appeared to have poor representation in their court appointed attorney who didn&#8217;t know anything about homeschooling or the organizations involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211535</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/03/03/ca-and-the-states-interest-in-secular-education/#comment-211535</guid>
		<description>JJ Ross, I think everyone needs to decide for themselves whether membership in any particular group is advantageous.  I am not currently a member of any group, but likely will be in the near future.

I disagree that joining means you sit back and relax.  But this is what I would want in the ideal state organization:

Updates on legislation in a summary format with links to the actual document.  Links to contact information is also nice.  I don't mind a position statement, but I do tire of the e-alerts which inform me what to think of an issue and even write out what to say.

However, membership in an organization should not mean you go to the park and stop worrying about your liberties. Take two examples:

The NSEA (NE NEA) is furiously fighting legislation which will likely pass this session.  At the hearing, their representative, Jay Sears, and the Commissioner of Education testified against the bill, but where were the thousands of teachers employed in this state?  Not one showed up.  I doubt they heard half the ripple over this bill that they did over the homeschool bill.  

Because although many of us do have membership, we also take our liberty as a personal responsibility to maintain.  There is a reason that we have historically seen a gradual liberalization of the laws despite our small numbers.  Part of that is the strength of the cause of liberty. : )  But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we act individually as well as in concert.

The NEA, despite the size of its membership rolls and the money behind it, does not seem to be able to generate the same energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ Ross, I think everyone needs to decide for themselves whether membership in any particular group is advantageous.  I am not currently a member of any group, but likely will be in the near future.</p>
<p>I disagree that joining means you sit back and relax.  But this is what I would want in the ideal state organization:</p>
<p>Updates on legislation in a summary format with links to the actual document.  Links to contact information is also nice.  I don&#8217;t mind a position statement, but I do tire of the e-alerts which inform me what to think of an issue and even write out what to say.</p>
<p>However, membership in an organization should not mean you go to the park and stop worrying about your liberties. Take two examples:</p>
<p>The NSEA (NE NEA) is furiously fighting legislation which will likely pass this session.  At the hearing, their representative, Jay Sears, and the Commissioner of Education testified against the bill, but where were the thousands of teachers employed in this state?  Not one showed up.  I doubt they heard half the ripple over this bill that they did over the homeschool bill.  </p>
<p>Because although many of us do have membership, we also take our liberty as a personal responsibility to maintain.  There is a reason that we have historically seen a gradual liberalization of the laws despite our small numbers.  Part of that is the strength of the cause of liberty. : )  But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we act individually as well as in concert.</p>
<p>The NEA, despite the size of its membership rolls and the money behind it, does not seem to be able to generate the same energy.</p>
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