On March 17, Stephen Downes, a senior researcher with the National Research Council who also writes and speaks extensively on education issues, published a brief entry on the court ruling in California in which he essentially equated homeschooling with abuse. Quite a few commenters objected, and I dedicated an entry to the false assumption that credentials have anything to do with quality education. Stephen was kind enough to respond to the objections raised in a sixteen minute video which I would like to look at more closely.
Stephen’s site is devoted to developing a vision for education which centers on community-based education. He doesn’t believe homeschooling, or at least his idea of what homeschooling is, fits into this ideal. This puts me at a bit of a disadvantage in discussing these ideas, for he is essentially pitting his stereotypes of homeschooling against his utopian vision for education.
Stephen raises five main objections to homeschooling:
I. Qualifications.
I am glad Stephen recognizes that certification does not guarantee a quality education. His point that the opposite is also true, ie., lack of certification also does not guarantee a quality education is obvious but pointless. No one is arguing that it is better to not be certified. The point is that certification itself is an ineffective predictor (pdf) of teacher ability and that research shows that there is no statistically significant difference between classroom teachers who are certified via the traditional route, via alternative certification programs and who enter the classroom uncertified. And we cannot overlook the fact that only high needs districts hire uncertified individuals (speaking of public schools).
I think it is important to note here that the only factor proven to have a significant effect on student performance beyond all socioeconomic factors is parental involvement. Parents are vital to the educational success of their children, and any system or solution we propose needs to take this into account. This is also the real reason why homeschoolers have traditionally been quite successful academically and socially after graduation. There is no magic formula; it is just that homeschooling selects for the most involved parents.
Stephen graciously acknowledges that many of us do provide quality education to our children. He also notes, however, that many parents are simply not qualified to teach their own children. They lack a proper knowledge base, capacity for reason and any grounding in pedagogy or communication theory. And I agree. But what has that to do with homeschooling? I know many competent adults who have graduated from college who say they could never teach their own children. While I think many of them could if they let go of some of their schoolish notions of what education means, it still points to a fundamental aspect of homeschooling rarely considered in these discussions: Homeschooling is self-regulating. Most people do not and will never try it…most will not even ever seriously consider it. And many of those who do begin homeschooling find it too difficult and seek out other options for their children.
So long as the parent-child relationship is healthy, no one wants to see that child succeed more than the parent. Thus the parent who is failing at educating their own child will seek alternatives.
II. Motivation and Content
Here, Stephen emphasizes that “there is a social objective to public schooling.” This he summarizes with a rule put forth by public schooling:
Don’t be psychotic.
Stephen wants children to learn to share, be considerate, not steal and obey the “really big” rules. Unfortunately, he utterly fails to provide any evidence that homeschooling in any way interferes with this goal. I am yet to find a homeschooling family which advocates anything else, although I know a few who pulled their children from the public schools due to severe abuses of these basic social values occurring within the system.
And here we move into the first real disagreement I have with Stephen which probably cannot be resolved simply by a little enlightenment on Stephen’s part because it doesn’t deal with stereotypes of homeschoolers, nor fears of what might happen within certain homeschools in the absence of external controls.
It is not the politicization of the classroom we need be concerned about, but the parental values which are being passed on to children outside of public oversight. And here he brings in the irony of ironies:
We know from experience in other countries where this occurs, the consequences can be devastating. The consequences can be catastrophic.
Really? I would like to know these instances so that I can look at them more closely. Since he refers to religious and racial supremacism, I’m going to go out on a limb and assume he is referring to catastrophic consequences such as, say, the Holocaust. Because we all know that started with unregulated homeschooling, right?
When we look at history, we see that Stephen’s fears are not only unfounded, but his trust for the ameliorating effects of public oversight is severely misplaced. Those movements in history which have led to the great catastrophes of the twentieth century did not begin with a few dissenters teaching their children unsavory things at home, but with an overseeing populace that determined that these minorities were not to be tolerated. And it occurred after the education system was fully centralized, with complete oversight by “the public,” ie., the state.
III. Accountability
Stephen begins his thoughts on accountability with a rather bold statement directed at homeschoolers, which rather pointedly reveals his thoughts on why we homeschool.
Children are not the property of their parents.
To which I respond, nor are they the property of the state. The question is not whether or not children “belong” to anyone, but who is best qualified to look out for their interests until they are old enough to do so themselves. The impartial state? Or the partial parent?
We need to know as a society that parents are not creating ticking time bombs.
Is this really a problem? Has there been a rash of exploding homeschoolers I’m not aware of? Or are we again putting forth a fear of what could happen as a foundation for stripping all families of their natural right to bring up their own children? I need to know as a parent that my children are physically and emotionally safe, that they are being challenged intellectually and that they have time to engage in social activities. I need to know as a parent that my children are “receiving something like a quality education.” Thus I have taken that responsibility upon myself.
There is obviously the potential that children might be abused in homeschools. They are. They are also abused in homes where the children are publicly educated. They are abused in the foster system, right under the noses of those trained to spot it. They are abused in the public school system. The private school system. In our churches. In youth camps. Anywhere you find children, you will find the potential for child abuse. There are certain checks we can put in place to protect children, but casting this shadow of suspicion on homeschoolers is unjustified.
IV. Resources.
Here, Stephen appears to have done a brief internet search to reveal a hypothesized lack of resources for homeschoolers. Apparently, we have some discussion groups and resource sites. This is where I seriously question Stephen’s ability to speak competently on the subject at hand. I am as supported as a homeschooler as I was as a public educator, with experienced homeschoolers willing to answer my questions, conferences and workshops I can attend, and such an overabundance of reading materials that I hardly know where to begin.
And then Stephen clearly articulates his impression of homeschooling, which is perhaps aided by the term itself, but not necessarily by the practice:
I never envisioned a society in which we replace the classroom with a mini-classroom in the garage.
We don’t want to create miniature instances of that all over society.
Homeschooling…should not simply be in the home.
He claims further,
When we look at community supports for learning…in the community, those resources simply aren’t there.
So there you have it. Homeschooling shouldn’t be what it isn’t: school at home.
And I categorically object to the last statement. Those resources are there. As a homeschooler, I create those kinds of resources. What did my daughter learn from a twenty minute conversation with a street musician she met in Lawrence? What did my son learn the day we stopped the car to watch firemen wash their engine and they invited him in to watch more closely? What did they learn from an invitation to share a meal with a Kurdish family…who didn’t even speak English? My children are young, but these kinds of opportunities actually increase with age. We are a part of our community, and as such we have access to all it offers. These opportunities do not have to be a part of a formalized education plan to be of benefit, although these kinds of resources abound as well.
V. Equity.
Not everyone can homeschool, but it also is not an occupation merely for the rich. I am not “rich,” although I am better off than most of the homeschoolers I know. There are single parents who homeschool, and parents who are pretty low on the economic scale. The fact that some are better off, however, is not persuasive evidence that they should give up their privileged position in order to make sure their children do not rise above the children of those less fortunate. Instead, we need to look for ways to support those parents who are unable to provide a decent education, regardless of what option they choose. For further analysis, I’ll refer to my previous post: Homeschooling, elitist and anti-democratic.
And in conclusion…
The end of the video outlines his vision for education based on community schooling, but I think the major flaw in his thinking is the notion that it is even possible for one system to work for everyone. Homeschooling is not a system, it is an option within an increasingly diversified system. And that system includes: public schools, private schools, charter schools, virtual academies, homeschools, small church schools, homeschool coops, and cottage schools. All of these should be supported by their communities and given access to the rich diversity of talent, experience and personality that our communities have to offer.
Rather than choosing one to become the new norm, I would like to see the state’s stranglehold over our education system released so that schools can be allowed to be innovative in their approach and children can be allowed to develop at different rates and with different skills and interests. I would like parents to recognize their importance in the education of their children and I would like the school, regardless of the type of school it is, to recognize the parent as more than just a partner in the education of the child.
In other words, it is the state, the educational authorities and Stephen Downes to which I say “Don’t be psychotic.” Learn to “distinguish [your] personal, subjective experience from the reality of the external world.”
Understand what it is you are seeking to place controls over before you act in ignorance, or worse, fear. And please, reserve your social engineering, utopian goals and visions for education for your own children. Mine are doing just fine. At home. In their community.
Update: Stephen responds. He clarifies that he did not intend to portray homeschooling itself as abuse, and looks more closely at the certification issue. I’m happy to hear the whole “homeschooling as abuse” thing was a misinterpretation, and will go into more depth about certification in a subsequent entry.
[tags]homeschooling, education, home school[/tags]
Principled Discovery is a place to stop and discuss news and information related to faith, family and particularly education. Pour yourself a cup of tea and join the conversation! 
Here, here, Dana! Excellent analysis of Stephen Downes’ comments and even better rebuttal. You ROCK, girl!
I am so glad there are articulate, thoughtful people like you in our community to speak for us. His statements just leave me spluttering in disbelief.
Great analysis…seems Mr. Downes forgot that the definition of psychosis might be applicable to his own views!
So are we pretty much assuming he never met anyone who was homeschooled?
The one thing that really drove me batty about his response and similar criticisms is the idea that homeschooling is for the well off and leaves the poorer people to the mercy of public schooling. It’s not only completely wrong but it could hurt those who people like Stephen say they are concerned about. For many of us (we were poor when we started - we just climbed into official middle classdom this past year) it is the ONLY affordable option to public schooling. It IS the way we escape being at the mercy of public schooling.
I know it’s most likely that those making such comments are simply ignorant of the realities of homeschooling but sometimes I wonder if they don’t suspect the truth of it but don’t think poor people are capable of educating their own children.
I do not think it would help if he met anybody who was homeschooled, because he seems to be incapable of seeing the parent/child relationship objectively. He presupposes that just about all parent/child relationships are fatally flawed, toxic, based on selfishness on the part of the parent, and he will filter everything he sees and hears through that defective sieve.
Dana, you say that so long as the parent child relationship is healthy, nobody wants to see that child do well more than the parent. And I agree- but Steven cannot accept that the parent/child relationship can be, and usually is, healthy. I missed it before, but here how he answered somebody else who made the same point in reply to Steven’s previous post on homeschooling (emphasized words, presuming I did the html properly, are mine):
So a ’significant’ number of parents are parents *only* because they are selfish gits who have failed at everything else. Parents, the vast majority of them in Stephen’s world, possibly ALL of them, are only concerned about ’success’ insofar as it reflects well on them, monstrously seeing their children sort of like trophy Stepford children. And in Stephen’s world, the school, with its age segregated, peer-dependent culture, is actually the only place children can achieve some level of ’sociological self-establishment.’
And while it’s the parents, in Stephen’s world, who disguise their selfish aims as ‘concern’ when they give up a second income and make many other sacrifices in order to educate their children OUTSIDE of mind-numbing, personality stifling, institutional settings, as a friend on my blog commented, Steven is “an academic/bureacrat with a vested interest in *pushing* all this newfangled media “education” stuff. Success at that—note the word “syndication”—means he needs a captive audience who cannot turn off the TV set or computers or whatever it is.”
I have seen a couple of posts that make this point. Home education is often the only option available to ‘the working poor’ other than the ‘free’ public school system. My dh and I could not afford private schooling for our children, but we can easily bear the expense of home education, as the resources available are broad and plentiful. I prefer the term ‘modest living’ to poverty;), and living modestly does not mean one is ignorant and uneducated- and btw, all those stupid parents Stephen spoke of came through what educational system?
Even if we could afford to send our kids to private school, home education is a LIFESTYLE choice that I could not provide for my children any other way.
Wow. And we are going to trust the education of children to someone who cannot grasp the most basic of relationships in our society? The one that is in fact the foundation of our society?
Even if he were right, would it not logically follow that the “community,” unregulated as it were by things such as love and affection for the child…that reflexive, mother bear instinct…would pursue its interests with the child with greater disregard for the rights and interests of the child?
Very true…that is a lot of why we first looked at homeschooling…or shall I say why I first agreed to it? We couldn’t afford private school at the time and my husband did not want to send them to public school.
I’m wondering if he has ever really talked to parents….but my impression is that he has not done anything I’d call research. Things like interviewing a number of homeschoolers, analyzing the available research, speaking with advocates and detractors, observing homeschools “in action” and attending a meeting. There are ways to study homeschooling without relying on our own stereotypes.
Honestly, I have serious concerns about the intellectual responsibility of anyone who connects homeschooling to abuse. They are either:
1. Intentionally inflammatory to garner attention.
2. Honestly believe that anyone who disagrees with them is abusive, or
3. Are incapable of viewing the world in any way other than through their own stereotype.
Any of these sort of undermines any attempt at rational communication and productive dialog.
I saw that and just posted a comment over there.
All in all, more harm may well be done by ‘home schooling’ than in a more impersonal environment that doesn’t have the judgemental aspect inferred by the parental gods.
There is absolutely NO evidence to support that notion- as a matter of fact, there is a boatload of evidence to the contrary. An ‘impersonal environment’ is better for a child? Where- on the Borg mothership?
Actually, that comment appears to be by some anonymous “Weaver.”
http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/page.cgi?post=43809
I’m not sure those are actually his views.
It looks like you’re right, Dana- I can’t tell- the comment format looks weird- maybe it’s my browser.
Thanks for listening to the entire video, Dana.
Concerning “accountability,” I commented about that at Talk2Action.
Regulating Homeschooling
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/6/6/01931/81512
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[part of one of my replies]
And what do you propose to do to keep parents’ attitudes from being passed down to their children?
Leaving aside indoctrination through homeschooling, various polls show that a large number of Americans reject evolution. This chart looks reasonably credible:
http://dericbownds.net/2006/08/this-is-scaryamericans-at-bottom-of.html
[note: Please keep in mind that the blog at which I commented does not support creationism. I don't include this link in order to step on toes.]
Then, looking at nosecounts of American teens in high schools, it appears from this NCES chart
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/dt05_054.asp
that roughly 1/14th of all American high school kids are in private schools, which leaves 13/14ths in public schools. Roughly. In any case the public schools educate a clear majority of American teens, and have done for over a century.
Now, if the approximately (12 years) x (180 days) x (6 hours per day) schooling of 13/14ths of Americans has not been enough to convince a larger proportion of them that the scientific method works for evolution as well as it does for nuclear fission, electricity and jets, what could you possibly do to keep a family from passing down erroneous beliefs?
Given that only 2% - 4% of the population are assumed to be homeschoolers (there is speculation that the numbers are inflated in order to create unease), shouldn’t the focus perhaps be on the 13/14ths of American teens instead of the sliver of a pie-slice of homeschoolers?
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‘Erroneous’ beliefs (in many areas) continue despite the near-universality of public education. How much more do those in public eduction plan to do concerning the transmission of what they see as wrong thinking among those not enrolled in their system? They already have the whip hand concerning what the majority of the populace is taught, and yet ‘wrong’ beliefs continue.
Many people want ‘accountability’ from homeschoolers, which I presume means that homeschooling parents transmit the same body of information, interpreted in the same manner, as do schools. Despite this, a significant percentage of surveyed people (a greater percentage than the approximated amount of homeschooling families) don’t reply with that information when asked questions about it. Even if the surveys are skewed in some way, the results do give one pause.
– Homeschooling families are a small percentage in the grand scheme of things.
– Public schools influence the grand majority.
– Graduates of public schools are the presumed standard.
– Informal surveys show that the viewpoints considered standard by academics aren’t what many people use to base their interpretation of ‘how things work.’
– Freedom of thought aside, why should homeschoolers be ‘accountable’ for school viewpoints when schools themselves don’t effectively transmit those viewpoints?
– If the general public can hold such disparate opinions, where is the threat from homeschooling?
I gave up a good paying job to “live modestly” and homeschool my children. I could be living in the same situation, working full time, and pay all of my paycheck to a private school, but why do that when I can do a better job for free?
That guy gives me indigestion.
I worry about his home life.
The picture of the video distracted me and I didn’t realize they were two separate comments at first…until I accidentally clicked the permalink.
The original point of public education was to provide a free education of reasonably good quality to those who otherwise would have none because they could not afford it. I don’t see why my children’s absence from the public school system prevents it from continuing to fulfill that purpose. If anything, if every family who *could* provide private or home education for their children *would* do so, just imagine the resources that would be available to provide a quality public school education for those that truly need assistance.
Well. That’s embarrassing. I thought the video was part of the comment, too- and read too quickly through the ‘Weaver, blah, blah,’
I thought Weaver was who he was responding to. Boy do I feel like an idiot.
Don’t feel bad- I did too. But all of our responses were valid, even if they were directed at the wrong person.:D
Valerie,
I read your comments at Talk2Action, and thought you did a great job of presenting some reasoned arguments against the usual groupthink hysteria.
Considering there are less than 100,000 thousand members of the HSLDA, and over 2 million homeschoolers, how does anyone assign Smith or Farris the position of Grand Poobah of Home Education?
You are right about defending the speech and beliefs with which we don’t agree- even as a conservative Fundie Christian I will still defend the freedom of religion and expression of those with whom I differ (within reasonable boundaries already pretty much covered by criminal and civil law).
You can always fall back on the William F. Buckley quote, “I won’t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.” When folks shot gun an entire segment of society with clap trap it’s time to remind them of their foolish and impulsiveness.
Quite frankly, I think the man is enjoying the attention he is getting from the homeschooling crowd.
All I have to say to him is :Yawn:.
If that’s all he’s got, leave him to it. Anyone who believes a word he says isn’t worth a minute of my time.
T.F. Stern - Claptrap. That’s hitting the nail on the head.
Dana - Did you notice my use of the word du jour? I try.
I wonder if he is going to answer his critics. Seems like every time I gripe at some blogger who isn’t responding to comments, there is a death in the family or they come down with colon cancer, so I won’t jinx Stephen by complaining about his lack of response so far. :p
Maybe he is working on another video. I don’t think I have the energy to take five more pages of notes for a post, though.
Du jour and frankly…you are good…
It’ll be interesting to see if he does some homework before he responds again. IMO that’ll be the best indicator of whether or not he is worth time at the keyboard, and really has good intentions with regards to education.
I agree. The funny thing is, I think homeschooling is more likely to act as a catalyst for something like the community education he seeks. We search out those kinds of things, thereby creating a demand. I get the impression, however, that maybe the free market isn’t really what he is considering as a model for anything, either.
I don’t think it matters how good an education system looks on paper (or in your vision), if it is centrally planned and administrated, it will have the same kinds of flaws the current system has.
So do I, so do I. I’d be curious what exactly his parents did to him as a young child to harden him this way.
Every time I start to get upset about his lack of research on homeschooling I realize that he just could not research the topic. Why? Because that would be home schooling. He would be taking his own education on a topic into his own hands, learning something outside the approved list of educational topics. Unless a certified teacher stands before him with a chalk board, government approved book, and no bathroom breaks he (and most who hate homeschooling) just cannot learn more about it than their own stereotypes.
Dana,
Thanks for a well thought out response to Stephen’s less-well-thought-out initial post and subsequent video. I applaud Stephen for expressing himself clearly; I was composing a response to his video right after he posted it, but work and educating the kids got in the way and I never finished it. I follow his very useful OLDaily to stay current in my field of instructional technology and distance learning, so I am quite interested in what he says. And I respect his willingness to engage and be cordial, even accommodating to those with whom he disagrees. I found your blog post, after all, because of his OLDaily in which he says “Dana Hanley…. engages the details of my argument in a constructive manner.” Stephen is respectful and caring, even if he is off base on this topic. Many could learn from him in that regard.
The core of the discussion, in my view, is who has responsibility for educating the children, parents or state? You wrote that Stephen’s “trust for the ameliorating effects of public oversight is severely misplaced.” Absolutely right. That’s the rub. The California ruling, which set off this discussion, trusts public oversight of education over parental oversight.
I would argue, without doing extensive research, that one of the main problems with public schooling is the lack of parental involvement. Where parents are involved, children do better, and some school personnel understand this, but sadly some some don’t. One principal was just puzzled when my wife and I offered to help out in the school where my oldest daughter attended 3rd grade years ago. She suggested baking cookies. That’s all she could think of.
Because my little blog doesn’t do trackback, I’ll post this to your comments and to my blog. Thanks again, Dana, for a well thought out and coherent response.
Peter
Thank you so much, Peter! And I have nothing but respect for Mr. Downes, despite my occasional snark. That isn’t meant personally. : ) I wish he had taken more time to talk to homeschoolers before posting, but most people writing about homeschooling do not really know that much about it. We all have our stereotypes! And most people never bother to come back and address objections. I’m glad he clarified, because from his first post, he sounded way more hostile than in his video. In the video, he sounded more like someone who had looked at the concept of homeschooling and didn’t think it worked for his vision rather than someone who thought we were abusing our kids by default because we weren’t using the “system.”
I think I would object to homeschooling as he portrayed it, but no one I know actually homeschools that way…in fact, the majority of newsletters, blogs and forums I read encourage new homeschoolers to remember not to try to create a school in their home, although that probably is a strong tendency among new homeschoolers.
And a lot of what I’ve read from his site I do agree with. But homeschooling doesn’t stand in the way of that…in fact, it might create the demand necessary for something like what he is talking about.
Hi Dana!
A grat post and a break-throgh debate. I always disliked formal education. I always felt during my college education that It was a sheer waste of money. I was pushed into sciences while I was interested in humanities (I was so metally weak to resist the pressure). I chucked my job as a copywriter to train and educate my child. I give him complete freedom at home to choose his subject and make his timetabele. He showed tremendous improvement to the times I thought the schooling would effect reasonable learning. I advocate parents to sit with them and read their news papers and books. But that’s a huge sacrifice to lose precious second income to get the kitchen stove burning all the time.
I thought of making my son self-reliant and ready-to-face the uncertainities of life.
Dana, can you help me how to nurture and inculcate the values of sicerity, honesty, hardworking nature, self-exploration…etc.; my son is all eight year old boy.
I read wayne w.Dyer’s “what do you want your children to become”. Can you please tell me about some useful blogs, refer some books, and share your precious expertise?
Thanks for the great service you’re rendering to the society through your blog!
Solomon
Solomon, thank you so much for stopping by! And the best way to inculcate values in your children is to live them yourself. Children naturally seek to emulate their parents, and living what you believe and talking about what you believe goes a long way in raising children with values such as those you discussed.
From March 30 to April 5, we will be celebrating “Home Education Week” here at Principled Discovery (and as many blogs as I can talk into playing along) and hopefully that will be an opportunity for you to meet some different homeschoolers from different perspectives. From what you wrote, you might be more interested in “unschooling” which I am not really competent to write about. I have a number of links to other homeschoolers in my sidebar, and if you peruse the list of links at BNN, you will have a pretty fair representation of different views from the homeschool community.
I don’t know what kind of books you are looking for exactly, but I think you are better off looking closely at what you believe about education: what are your big goals? After your child has forgotten the details, what kinds of things do you want left over when they move out? What do you think the role of the child and the role of the teacher should be in educating the child?
Anyway, feel free to ask any more questions you have or email me. There is a link to my contact form that you can email me through and I usually answer emails within a few days. And starting next Sunday, I will have a series of posts which hopefully will address some of the questions you may have. But you are certainly welcome to ask questions on any post or via email!
Dawn: I also would object to education kids at home if it were as Stephen describes: mini-classrooms in the garage where kids to worksheets, stay quiet, and sit in rows (albeit short rows). I am thankful that my wife has been able to tailor make an education for each of our three daughters, and that they include (as you described) many opportunities to learn in the community, a cooperative of home-based educators that meet once a week and help each other out, and a classics based curriculum.
Your response to Stephen’s video was eloquent and respectful, yet pointed. I wouldn’t say it was snarky.
Peter
Thank you. : ) It wasn’t intended to be snarky, but I can be at times. More so when I don’t think there is any chance at discussion, but I think Stephen is interested in dialog. So I’m curious what his response shall be.
Stephen’s posting are a beautiful example of how technology can be dangerous. Because he has access to more technology than most people he has become a loud voice on the Internet. Although he believes in democracy profoundly he has become like many others before him, by wanting to do good, a modern form of a tyrant.
Stephen himself certainly is not certified in any way to make educational comments. He certainly could not be hired as a school teacher because he doesn’t have the degree. He is not a parent and has not been involved in home schooling. Even his own high school experience seems to have left him very bitter. Probably ahigh school dropout who got his GED, wiggled his way into a university, used to Internet to fit in socially etc.
I like Stephen because he is very gentle and speaks strongly of what he believes in. He is also very original and pleasantly opiniated. Unfortunately he is a late comer in the field of K12 education and has not seen enough to form a proper model of US and Canadian education.
Stephen is not the problem. Those that give him a strong voice are the problem. NRC is also a big part of the problem when they finance activities of this type.
This said Stephen has a very strong mind and many times he will hit on something worthwile to resolve. He tends to shoot at everything and I think one day he will actually solve some problems.
I strongly encourage people to question his credentials. He is provocative..but otherwise he would not be invited to give talks..would he.
Gilbert
Dana, Thank you for your views. I wanted some books on some tips to parents to help inculcate values: I want my child to be truthful and never say a lie; I want him to be a hard worker, etc.
I’ll dutifully check those blogs that are there in the sidebar and update my knowledge.
Anyway, I became a fan of your blog, probably I’ll learn more from you. For the questions you asked me about child and teacher, I’ll reply you later. I’m from India and I can see from Indian education perspective. May God bless YOu!
Thank for the information Gilbert. I have questioned his research and sources but that seems to be end up being interpreted as me questioning his state of mind. Weird.
Hi, I just stopped in via the carnival of homeschooling. Interesting post! Thanks for sharing this.
Quoting: “homeschooling is for the well off and leaves the poorer people to the mercy of public schooling”
I have heard versions of this statement many times in my short experience with homeschooling and it always makes me chuckle. If the public schools are “THE” place to get an education, how would it be an advantage for me to school my children at home, no matter my income? If public schools really are that much better, wouldn’t the logical argument here be to keep the “rich” kids out of the school system to better improve the chances of the “poor” kids?
first of all do any of these parents who are homeschooling their kids know anyone who was homeschooled? well i was and let me tell you credentials or not homeschool is always abusive, whether the parents are deeply religious, and spankers which is a form of physical abuse, that is why it is no longer endorsed by the scientific community, maybe you should look at the studies before getting all vigilanty about saving that too; the social isolation is always enough of an abuse, even if you have a homeschooling group, your children will NEVER learn how to interact with strangers or access the kind of person they are interacting with, something that is neccessary on a daily basis for any adult, every homeschooled kid i knew, and believe me i’m one of them, has turned out with severe social issues of one kind or another, my sister is a sociopath, she feels no emotion, compation, or empathy, this can happen through alot of avenues, but she developed it from being spanked at an early age, being homeschooled and isolated exacerbated the issue and in our homw she was rewarded for manipulating people, and she would pit people against each other for her own pleasure, my brother, who was the most sociallized out of the three of us and the least physically abused, has depression, cannot communicate with outhers well verbally or otherwise (being homeschooled creates an environment where one can literally be so controlled they feel uncomfortable having their own thoughts voicing their own opinions and developing normally) at 18 going on 19, he has never been on a date has had one friend throughout high school who is my sister’s bf, and will not hug or make even normal eye contact with me, his cousin or anyone except his mother, his condition has not improved even though he has been in a normal school evironment since the age of 14, he has deteriorated to this point, homeschool is not a safe place for children because of how they develope, one cannot integrate into society the way they should, i’ve personally been date raped so many times and different ways its not even funny, isolation. thats the problem with homeschool, credentials are an excuse, the people who want it are trying to protect us, before this happens, no one wants to see their child be suicidal, but its very common for homeschooled kids, spanking or not i never could have developed properly in the environment i was given and i haven’t, i can function, but thats it…
i have NEVER seen homeschooling work, and if you can find one person, and i mean that a child who has been homeschooled became an adult is living on their own and they don’t think that it crippled them, now… that would be f*cking miracle
homeschooling is like handing your child lit dynamite and never telling them when to throw,
and i say that from experience.
I am sorry you had such a bad experience, but believe me, I know a lot of people who feel their lives were messed up by public education. That is part of why some of them have chosen to homeschool.
I do not adults who were homeschooled, all of whom loved the experience and most either are homeschooling their own children or plan to homeschool their children when they have them.
Studies on the subject are not really as scientific as one would like to use to prove anything, but they suggest of the 7000 + homeschooled adults surveyed, that most of these adults appreciate their homeschooling experience and plan to homeschool their own children.
Certainly it does not work for every child, but neither does the public school nor private school.
If you and your siblings were physically abused, that is the real issue, not homeschooling. I am terribly sorry that happened to you. I used to work with abused and neglected children (all of whom were in public schools and all of whom struggled significantly with relationships with others) and it is a horrific experience for any child.
Hi there, very interesting response, and I mostly agree. It’s amazing how many people hear the term “homeschooling” and automatically pigeon-hole what it means.
I was homeschooled until I was 11, and I think it’s one of the best experiences I’ve ever had. It encouraged me to think outside the box, work independently, motivate myself, and fostered a strong interest in community involvement and community development.
Where I grew up (NSW, Australia), we would have once or twice yearly homeschooling camps, where parents and children would get together for a couple of weeks and facilitate and participate in workshops and activities, share stories and experiences and just generally have fun. In fact, a lot of my education then was as much outside as it was inside the home. I hear from friends overseas that there are just as many, if not more, camps for homeschoolers in the states (and other places), so for anyone to insinuate homeschooling can be isolating doesn’t understand the opportunities it presents.
Having said that, I’m glad I went to school when I was 11, because it gave me new experiences in socialising and learning. But it’s the combination of homeschooling and formal education that I think has helped me excel in tertiary education and helped me to follow my career. I find the further I get in my life the more I refer back to skills I developed through homeschooling. To me, it’s not about the style of education, it’s about the people involved. My parents let me choose when I went to school, and allowing me (a child at the time my most standards) to decide has made all the difference.
Commenting usually isnt my thing, but ive spent an hour on the site, so thanks for the info