Comments on: Homeschool critics taking quotes out of context http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/ If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:53:02 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Dana Hanley http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-977250 Dana Hanley Thu, 22 May 2008 21:27:30 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-977250 Thank you, Suze. And they do have an interesting history. I just finished reading Liberty and Learning not too long ago written by their President. Quite fascinating stuff. Thank you, Suze. And they do have an interesting history. I just finished reading Liberty and Learning not too long ago written by their President. Quite fascinating stuff.

]]> By: Media Manipulation « A Woman On Purpose http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-977231 Media Manipulation « A Woman On Purpose Thu, 22 May 2008 13:04:18 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-977231 [...] on May 22, 2008. Not too long ago, Dana expressed concern about how the media reports events and interviews. It does make one wonder whether or not we are [...] [...] on May 22, 2008. Not too long ago, Dana expressed concern about how the media reports events and interviews. It does make one wonder whether or not we are [...]

]]> By: Suze http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-852403 Suze Sat, 10 May 2008 15:36:03 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-852403 "Hillsdale College has opted to refuse all government funding, including students receiving federal aid so that it can maintain its independence from state control." This is a bit OT from the main point here, but I wanted to elaborate on the above to say that while Hillsdale does refuse all govt funding, including that which might come in the form of student aid, it is well worth noting that no student is ever turned away from Hillsdale on account of that stance. All student aid which might otherwise have come from a govt source is replaced with private funding. Hillsdale has an interesting history. It was the first American college to prohibit discrimination based on race, religion or sex; was an early force for the abolition of slavery; and was only the second college in the nation to grant four-year liberal arts degrees to women. http://www.hillsdale.edu/about/history.asp “Hillsdale College has opted to refuse all government funding, including students receiving federal aid so that it can maintain its independence from state control.”

This is a bit OT from the main point here, but I wanted to elaborate on the above to say that while Hillsdale does refuse all govt funding, including that which might come in the form of student aid, it is well worth noting that no student is ever turned away from Hillsdale on account of that stance. All student aid which might otherwise have come from a govt source is replaced with private funding.

Hillsdale has an interesting history. It was the first American college to prohibit discrimination based on race, religion or sex; was an early force for the abolition of slavery; and was only the second college in the nation to grant four-year liberal arts degrees to women.

http://www.hillsdale.edu/about/history.asp

]]> By: Cristina http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-815341 Cristina Wed, 07 May 2008 17:11:32 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-815341 Dana, I'm so glad you're on the homeschooling side. We are very lucky to have such an intelligent, fact-checking debater in our camp! Peace and Laughter! Dana, I’m so glad you’re on the homeschooling side. We are very lucky to have such an intelligent, fact-checking debater in our camp!

Peace and Laughter!

]]> By: Dana http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-779581 Dana Sun, 04 May 2008 21:48:25 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-779581 But Sunniemom, it is only "intelligent" conversation if we agree with him. :) And I agree with the Thrasher bit. What is up with that guy? I don't mind people being against homeschooling, but they shouldn't have to twist quotes out of context to make their point. That was more the Detroit Free Press' issue, but when the fact was pointed out, Mr. Lessenberry could have made the correction. At least that is what I would do if I found out that there was a lot more to what was going on in a story than what was reported. But Sunniemom, it is only “intelligent” conversation if we agree with him. :)

And I agree with the Thrasher bit. What is up with that guy?

I don’t mind people being against homeschooling, but they shouldn’t have to twist quotes out of context to make their point. That was more the Detroit Free Press’ issue, but when the fact was pointed out, Mr. Lessenberry could have made the correction.

At least that is what I would do if I found out that there was a lot more to what was going on in a story than what was reported.

]]> By: Sunniemom http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-779069 Sunniemom Sun, 04 May 2008 20:41:09 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-779069 I just checked in to see how things were shakin' at Lessenberry's, and I noticed that he has posted about 15 or so blog entries since April 22 (the date of the homeschooling essay) and of all those posts, the highest comment count I saw was 4. The homeschooling essay got 127 comments- and Jack never came back to seriously answer any of the questions or criticism raised by responders. So much for the idea that <i>"Jack has always said that the thing he loves about journalism is the fact that it's all about people-about connecting with and learning from them. "I want to create intelligent dialogue about the problems we face. I think we need to think about and talk about who we are as a country and people, and explore those things.""</i> I used the available link for comments and suggestions, and left a few ideas for Lessenberry and company. <i>My suggestion is that if Jack honestly wants to create intelligent dialogue, he could actually engage in the discussion that brought the most comments and traffic to his site since Noah got off the boat, and answer the questions raised about the validity and supportive data for Jack's opinions and sources. And to further increase the intelligence quotient on Jack's blog, consider blocking Thrasher.</i> I just checked in to see how things were shakin’ at Lessenberry’s, and I noticed that he has posted about 15 or so blog entries since April 22 (the date of the homeschooling essay) and of all those posts, the highest comment count I saw was 4.

The homeschooling essay got 127 comments- and Jack never came back to seriously answer any of the questions or criticism raised by responders.

So much for the idea that “Jack has always said that the thing he loves about journalism is the fact that it’s all about people-about connecting with and learning from them.

“I want to create intelligent dialogue about the problems we face. I think we need to think about and talk about who we are as a country and people, and explore those things.”"

I used the available link for comments and suggestions, and left a few ideas for Lessenberry and company.

My suggestion is that if Jack honestly wants to create intelligent dialogue, he could actually engage in the discussion that brought the most comments and traffic to his site since Noah got off the boat, and answer the questions raised about the validity and supportive data for Jack’s opinions and sources.

And to further increase the intelligence quotient on Jack’s blog, consider blocking Thrasher.

]]> By: Dana Hanley http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-740756 Dana Hanley Thu, 01 May 2008 19:50:24 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-740756 When you look at just how twisted the reporting is in homeschooling, you wonder how bad it is in other things. And I'm not just talking about author bias. You can't get around that and I don't expect every journalist who tackles a homeschooling story to become magically converted to homeschool advocates. They don't have the time to do that much research, and some cursory reporting that doesn't really deal with much is to be expected. But to take a lengthy interview which is completely positive toward homeschooling and press the interviewee for some "balance" and then report only that "balance" completely out of the context of the interview? That isn't due to lack of expertise in the subject area. That is complete manipulation of the source material. And you know it isn't just going on with homeschooling. It makes you question all reporting. Which is why I think blogging is having such an effect on journalism. Suddenly, there are people asking basic questions and tracking down answers. We don't just have to take "their word" for it that the story is accurate. When you look at just how twisted the reporting is in homeschooling, you wonder how bad it is in other things. And I’m not just talking about author bias. You can’t get around that and I don’t expect every journalist who tackles a homeschooling story to become magically converted to homeschool advocates. They don’t have the time to do that much research, and some cursory reporting that doesn’t really deal with much is to be expected.

But to take a lengthy interview which is completely positive toward homeschooling and press the interviewee for some “balance” and then report only that “balance” completely out of the context of the interview? That isn’t due to lack of expertise in the subject area. That is complete manipulation of the source material.

And you know it isn’t just going on with homeschooling. It makes you question all reporting. Which is why I think blogging is having such an effect on journalism. Suddenly, there are people asking basic questions and tracking down answers. We don’t just have to take “their word” for it that the story is accurate.

]]> By: bugskippy http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-740279 bugskippy Thu, 01 May 2008 18:59:40 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-740279 For me, all his response does is show how arrogant he is. If it's the state's "job" to make sure all students are educated, and study after study shows they are failing, but homeschooling studies show it works, why doesn't the state leave homeschoolers alone while they fix their broken system? This is unrealted but shows that manipulated reporting happens everywhere. Did you see Nancy Pelosi has been quoting a Bible verse that doesn't exist? http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=79920 You did some great detective work here. But, can't any person with a brain realize a Bible verse is pretty easy to verify? For me, all his response does is show how arrogant he is. If it’s the state’s “job” to make sure all students are educated, and study after study shows they are failing, but homeschooling studies show it works, why doesn’t the state leave homeschoolers alone while they fix their broken system?

This is unrealted but shows that manipulated reporting happens everywhere. Did you see Nancy Pelosi has been quoting a Bible verse that doesn’t exist? http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=79920 You did some great detective work here. But, can’t any person with a brain realize a Bible verse is pretty easy to verify?

]]> By: Dana Hanley http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-693669 Dana Hanley Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:37:22 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-693669 Yeah...still doesn't quite address the fact that the original quote was taken out of context, does it? Yeah…still doesn’t quite address the fact that the original quote was taken out of context, does it?

]]> By: Sunniemom http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/comment-page-1/#comment-685995 Sunniemom Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:20:53 +0000 http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/04/25/homeschool-critics-taking-quotes-out-of-context/#comment-685995 Mr. Lessenberry FINALLY responds..sort of... <i>First of all, there WAS something I said in my essay that I would like to amend. I quoted a recent Free Press story as saying that Hillsdale College’s honors program director recently told the Detroit Free Press that the home schooled children he sees are deficient in science education. In fact the man who said that, David Stewart, actually said it in 2002. I do not think that is ancient history, nor do I think the situation is likely to have radically changed since then. But I would not have used the word “recent” if I had to do it over. Mr. Stewart is also no longer the honors director, and I apologize for that error. What I actually did was take that statement from a more recent article written by David Plank, the man who I interviewed in that same segment, a nationally renowned expert on education policy. Here is what that article said. “David Stewart, director of Hillsdale College’s honors program, told the Detroit Free Press that home schooled children are typically deficient in science education: ’I can generally count on them for having almost no science and virtually no lab science.” Incidentally -- there is nothing wrong with totally disagreeing with me on this topic. Many of the postings, however, seem to be from people who did not do a very good job of reading my essay. I did in fact say that there were cases where home schooling makes sense. It is clear that many of the people posting here have done an excellent job home schooling their children, or at least are convinced that they have, though the defensiveness of some of the comments makes me wonder. However, I have seen examples of home “schooling” failures as well; students whose home schooling included no biology and lots of religious fanaticism. Students who are insufficiently socialized. Hats off to those parents who do in fact home school their children and somehow give them a well-rounded educational and social experience. But very few parents can do that in today’s economy, where two-earner families are the norm, and everything that weakens the public schools financially weakens our democracy. But I have no sympathy for home schoolers who oppose even letting the authorities know that they are home schooling their children; that makes no sense in today’s world. And I remain unalterably opposed to allowing uneducated and unqualified to home school their children, for the same reason I should not be allowed to practice medicine. And I think the state SHOULD prescribe some basic curriculum, and require home schooled children to take tests to demonstrate they are performing up to capacity. All of the people who have posted here that their home schooled children are performing far ahead of grade level should scarcely fear this. Pennsylvania prescribes a strict curriculum for home schoolers, by the way, and education policy experts tell me it works very well. And no, I am not talking about filling their little heads with liberal orthodoxy. I am talking about competence in most basic subjects, without which no child in Michigan stands a chance of survival. *** Posted by: Jack Lessenberry | April 26, 2008 at 12:22 PM </i> Mr. Lessenberry FINALLY responds..sort of…

First of all, there WAS something I said in my essay that I would like to amend. I quoted a recent Free Press story as saying that Hillsdale College’s honors program director recently told the Detroit Free Press that the home schooled children he sees are deficient in science education. In fact the man who said that, David Stewart, actually said it in 2002. I do not think that is ancient history, nor do I think the situation is likely to have radically changed since then.
But I would not have used the word “recent” if I had to do it over. Mr. Stewart is also no longer the honors director, and I apologize for that error. What I actually did was take that statement from a more recent article written by David Plank, the man who I interviewed in that same segment, a nationally renowned expert on education policy. Here is what that article said. “David Stewart, director of Hillsdale College’s honors program, told the Detroit Free Press that home schooled children are typically deficient in science education: ’I can generally count on them for having almost no science and virtually no lab science.”

Incidentally — there is nothing wrong with totally disagreeing with me on this topic. Many of the postings, however, seem to be from people who did not do a very good job of reading my essay.
I did in fact say that there were cases where home schooling makes sense. It is clear that many of the people posting here have done an excellent job home schooling their children, or at least are convinced that they have, though the defensiveness of some of the comments makes me wonder. However, I have seen examples of home “schooling” failures as well; students whose home schooling included no biology and lots of religious fanaticism.
Students who are insufficiently socialized.

Hats off to those parents who do in fact home school their children and somehow give them a well-rounded educational and social experience. But very few parents can do that in today’s economy, where two-earner families are the norm, and everything that weakens the public schools financially weakens our democracy.

But I have no sympathy for home schoolers who oppose even letting the authorities know that they are home schooling their children; that makes no sense in today’s world. And I remain unalterably opposed to allowing uneducated and unqualified to home school their children, for the same reason I should not be allowed to practice medicine. And I think the state SHOULD prescribe some basic curriculum, and require home schooled children to take tests to demonstrate they are performing up to capacity. All of the people who have posted here that their home schooled children are performing far ahead of grade level should scarcely fear this.

Pennsylvania prescribes a strict curriculum for home schoolers, by the way, and education policy experts tell me it works very well. And no, I am not talking about filling their little heads with liberal orthodoxy. I am talking about competence in most basic subjects, without which no child in Michigan stands a chance of survival.
***

Posted by: Jack Lessenberry | April 26, 2008 at 12:22 PM

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