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	<title>Comments on: A more concrete objection to testing homeschools</title>
	<atom:link href="http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/</link>
	<description>If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-803983</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-803983</guid>
		<description>From a conversation my dh and I had just two nights ago with a public school teacher and her husband:
"So, since you homeschool, do you have to test your kids like we do at school?"
"It depends on what state you live in.  In Kansas, we don't have to."
"It's all about funding anyway.  If the test scores aren't high enough, the school doesn't get as much money."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a conversation my dh and I had just two nights ago with a public school teacher and her husband:<br />
&#8220;So, since you homeschool, do you have to test your kids like we do at school?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;It depends on what state you live in.  In Kansas, we don&#8217;t have to.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;It&#8217;s all about funding anyway.  If the test scores aren&#8217;t high enough, the school doesn&#8217;t get as much money.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-803969</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-803969</guid>
		<description>Ooh...very true, Sebastian:

&lt;em&gt;A provocative question, but the more I think about it, the more it falls in the “Have you stopped beating your wife?”&lt;/em&gt;

We just did some testing, too, although not for the state.  They can't even get their ducks in a row when they write the test and deign the curriculum.  Why would I want to be measured against it?  Most kids will do fine, and the objections I raise here are less significant the older a child gets.  After all, by 18 they should have caught up even if they had a later start.

But parents should be allowed to have an educational philosophy separate from the state.  And good tests measure what is being taught, not what someone else decides a child should know by a certain age.  There is room for individuality.

And the money is better spent on the kids whose parents have put them in the public system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh&#8230;very true, Sebastian:</p>
<p><em>A provocative question, but the more I think about it, the more it falls in the “Have you stopped beating your wife?”</em></p>
<p>We just did some testing, too, although not for the state.  They can&#8217;t even get their ducks in a row when they write the test and deign the curriculum.  Why would I want to be measured against it?  Most kids will do fine, and the objections I raise here are less significant the older a child gets.  After all, by 18 they should have caught up even if they had a later start.</p>
<p>But parents should be allowed to have an educational philosophy separate from the state.  And good tests measure what is being taught, not what someone else decides a child should know by a certain age.  There is room for individuality.</p>
<p>And the money is better spent on the kids whose parents have put them in the public system.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-803089</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-803089</guid>
		<description>I agree with this statement-

From Kaboose.com- &lt;a href="http://parenting.kaboose.com/education-and-learning/school-life/Standardized-Tests-What-Grade-Do-You-Give-Them.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Standardized Tests: What Grade Do You Give Them&lt;/a&gt;?

&lt;i&gt;To develop a test, publishers construct questions based on the most common textbooks and curriculum for a particular grade, and that, according to many critics, is part of the problem. The tests look for what is common among schools, not which is unique. Subjects such as physical education, art, music, and foreign language, for instance, may help create a well-rounded student, but will be of little use on the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills.&lt;/i&gt;

Even though homeschoolers have submitted to standardized tests and done very well, the continued push is going to hurt home education, because part of the attraction to homeschooling is the opportunity for individualization, based on ability and interests.

I have waited until my boys were 7-8 years old to teach them to read- and they while they have managed to do well on the CAT, I don't appreciate the pressure to make them do something that I don't want them to do until I believe they are developmentally ready.

So now The Big Dog, who started with first grade math when he was 9 and is now getting ready for Algebra 1 next year (he's 11)- what does standardized testing do for him or me? He isn't in 9th grade in Language Arts, but no tests fit his varied levels of learning. So if I get a test that 'measures' his understanding of Algebra at the end of next year, it is not going to accurately measure his vocabulary or understanding of grammar, because it will probably contain concepts and literature references we haven't covered yet.

My dd isn't even going to take Algebra- she loves consumer/business math. I think learning the stock market and the American economy is quite challenging, and just as worthy of study as 'higher math'. Are there any standardized tests that will accurately evaluate her?

I evaluate my kids throughout the year, based on the material we have covered. There is no test publisher in the country that has a working crystal ball with which to create a test that would help assess my homeschooling efforts or my kids' progress.

Crossing my fingers that I formatted the link properly....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with this statement-</p>
<p>From Kaboose.com- <a href="http://parenting.kaboose.com/education-and-learning/school-life/Standardized-Tests-What-Grade-Do-You-Give-Them.html" rel="nofollow">Standardized Tests: What Grade Do You Give Them</a>?</p>
<p><i>To develop a test, publishers construct questions based on the most common textbooks and curriculum for a particular grade, and that, according to many critics, is part of the problem. The tests look for what is common among schools, not which is unique. Subjects such as physical education, art, music, and foreign language, for instance, may help create a well-rounded student, but will be of little use on the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills.</i></p>
<p>Even though homeschoolers have submitted to standardized tests and done very well, the continued push is going to hurt home education, because part of the attraction to homeschooling is the opportunity for individualization, based on ability and interests.</p>
<p>I have waited until my boys were 7-8 years old to teach them to read- and they while they have managed to do well on the CAT, I don&#8217;t appreciate the pressure to make them do something that I don&#8217;t want them to do until I believe they are developmentally ready.</p>
<p>So now The Big Dog, who started with first grade math when he was 9 and is now getting ready for Algebra 1 next year (he&#8217;s 11)- what does standardized testing do for him or me? He isn&#8217;t in 9th grade in Language Arts, but no tests fit his varied levels of learning. So if I get a test that &#8216;measures&#8217; his understanding of Algebra at the end of next year, it is not going to accurately measure his vocabulary or understanding of grammar, because it will probably contain concepts and literature references we haven&#8217;t covered yet.</p>
<p>My dd isn&#8217;t even going to take Algebra- she loves consumer/business math. I think learning the stock market and the American economy is quite challenging, and just as worthy of study as &#8216;higher math&#8217;. Are there any standardized tests that will accurately evaluate her?</p>
<p>I evaluate my kids throughout the year, based on the material we have covered. There is no test publisher in the country that has a working crystal ball with which to create a test that would help assess my homeschooling efforts or my kids&#8217; progress.</p>
<p>Crossing my fingers that I formatted the link properly&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian (a lady)</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-802445</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian (a lady)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 17:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-802445</guid>
		<description>I keep coming back to a line in a previous post, "Why are you afraid of taking a math test?" (maybe not a direct quote). A provocative question, but the more I think about it, the more it falls in the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" category. Looking at a standardized test as some valid piece of government oversight is asking us to be measured by the standards of a system we have found to be totally lacking. I am on day two of three days of standardized testing this week. It is entirely likely that one of my kids will miss no questions on his test. It will appease the government rep that counts such pieces of paper. But it will tell me nothing of value about what he has learned this year. 
The best analogy that I've been able to come up with is insisting on assigning a standard size label to a made to measure suit. Unfortunately the jacket is one size (with extra wide shoulders and long sleeves), the trousers are another size (extra long and narrow waisted) and there are no government standards for vests at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep coming back to a line in a previous post, &#8220;Why are you afraid of taking a math test?&#8221; (maybe not a direct quote). A provocative question, but the more I think about it, the more it falls in the &#8220;Have you stopped beating your wife?&#8221; category. Looking at a standardized test as some valid piece of government oversight is asking us to be measured by the standards of a system we have found to be totally lacking. I am on day two of three days of standardized testing this week. It is entirely likely that one of my kids will miss no questions on his test. It will appease the government rep that counts such pieces of paper. But it will tell me nothing of value about what he has learned this year.<br />
The best analogy that I&#8217;ve been able to come up with is insisting on assigning a standard size label to a made to measure suit. Unfortunately the jacket is one size (with extra wide shoulders and long sleeves), the trousers are another size (extra long and narrow waisted) and there are no government standards for vests at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-794940</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 04:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-794940</guid>
		<description>And we took one today, too. Although it was just because my daughter has been flying through her new math program and I decided it was a little too easy.  I wanted to see if she was ready to skip to the next one...not quite, but I think we're going to skip through half of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And we took one today, too. Although it was just because my daughter has been flying through her new math program and I decided it was a little too easy.  I wanted to see if she was ready to skip to the next one&#8230;not quite, but I think we&#8217;re going to skip through half of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-794929</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 04:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-794929</guid>
		<description>I agree, Crimson Wife.  So long as they are used to do what they were designed to do...provide one objective measure among many...they are a good and useful tool.  And the test is designed to test what the students in a public school are being taught, and the students are taught specifically how to take these tests.  If a school or district is still performing poorly on them, there is probably a problem.

It just does not necessarily work in every circumstance.  And it doesn't necessarily work for homeschools, particularly in the younger grades.  After all, testing starts in the third grade when many homeschoolers are really only just getting started with formal studies depending on the philosophy.  Research has proven this is as effective (and in some cases more effective) than starting early.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Crimson Wife.  So long as they are used to do what they were designed to do&#8230;provide one objective measure among many&#8230;they are a good and useful tool.  And the test is designed to test what the students in a public school are being taught, and the students are taught specifically how to take these tests.  If a school or district is still performing poorly on them, there is probably a problem.</p>
<p>It just does not necessarily work in every circumstance.  And it doesn&#8217;t necessarily work for homeschools, particularly in the younger grades.  After all, testing starts in the third grade when many homeschoolers are really only just getting started with formal studies depending on the philosophy.  Research has proven this is as effective (and in some cases more effective) than starting early.</p>
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		<title>By: Life On The Planet</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-793666</link>
		<dc:creator>Life On The Planet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 01:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-793666</guid>
		<description>Sorry to jump in this late in the game. We were standardize testing today! I agree with the majority here - it's fine for parents to choose to test their children, but it should not be mandatory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to jump in this late in the game. We were standardize testing today! I agree with the majority here - it&#8217;s fine for parents to choose to test their children, but it should not be mandatory.</p>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-792583</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 00:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-792583</guid>
		<description>I, for one, happen to like data analysis and using objective measurements rather than subjective hunches (guess it's my science background showing). As a parent, one of the things I considered when deciding not to enroll my child in our neighborhood school is that the standardized test scores were not what they ought to be given the demographics of the school. In fact, they are in the bottom 20% of schools in California with similar demographics. Without having that data available, I would've had a much more difficult time finding out that the school isn't as good academically as it claims to be ("We're a California Distinguished School!" they trumpet).

Standardized test scores aren't the be-all-and-end-all, and certainly privately funded schools (including homeschools) should not be required to report student scores to the state. But I do believe they provide an objective measurement of certain skills, and one way to compare the quality of government-run schools (are the students doing better or worse than expected?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, for one, happen to like data analysis and using objective measurements rather than subjective hunches (guess it&#8217;s my science background showing). As a parent, one of the things I considered when deciding not to enroll my child in our neighborhood school is that the standardized test scores were not what they ought to be given the demographics of the school. In fact, they are in the bottom 20% of schools in California with similar demographics. Without having that data available, I would&#8217;ve had a much more difficult time finding out that the school isn&#8217;t as good academically as it claims to be (&#8221;We&#8217;re a California Distinguished School!&#8221; they trumpet).</p>
<p>Standardized test scores aren&#8217;t the be-all-and-end-all, and certainly privately funded schools (including homeschools) should not be required to report student scores to the state. But I do believe they provide an objective measurement of certain skills, and one way to compare the quality of government-run schools (are the students doing better or worse than expected?).</p>
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		<title>By: Dana Hanley</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-790038</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 19:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-790038</guid>
		<description>Works for me. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Works for me. <img src='http://principleddiscovery.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2008/05/05/a-more-concrete-objection-to-testing-homeschools/#comment-790004</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 19:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=957#comment-790004</guid>
		<description>So -- we could call real academic freedom (for kids, too) the right, and free schooling the entitlement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So &#8212; we could call real academic freedom (for kids, too) the right, and free schooling the entitlement?</p>
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