The two most popular items to have made their rounds while my blog was moving servers seem to be the Subway boycott and Dr. Laura’s entry about homeschoolers and socialization. Most of the commentary I’ve seen regarding Dr. Laura’s entry, however, has included only a link with little discussion. So I thought I’d share a few thoughts of my own. Namely, I question one assertion made near the end of the entry:
Obviously, home-schooled students have additional adjustments to make when leaving their homes and entering a university or college environment: social relationship, peer pressure, classroom structure, etc. They are being forced to adapt to a social environment decidedly different from their homes or home school support groups.
It may seem obvious, but is it true? Is there a qualitative difference between the homeschool and the traditional school which should favor the traditionally schooled student, thus making the homeschooler’s success that much more noteworthy? Are there social relationships, potential peer pressure and classroom structure factors which the homeschooler must overcome given their upbringing? Or are we focusing too narrowly on the external similarities between high school and college, and not enough on the qualitative differences? Dr. Laura really only mentions two categories for comparison: the social environment and the structural environment. So I’ll start my thoughts there.
The social environment, or what is really gained by socialization?
The social environment of the traditional high school and college do, at least on the surface, seem to have a lot in common. There are large numbers of similarly aged students gaining an education through similar means. It is a diverse group, and navigating the groups and sub-groups is important for maintaining an identity in and with the group.
Peer pressure can be an issue and Dr. Laura has a point that the parental and community support given homeschoolers likely prepares them to “develop strengths and convictions that provide a bridge over the troubled waters of a multitude of challenges and temptations.” But what does traditional schooling do? Socialization is a large part of the curriculum, and it isn’t exactly the “hidden curriculum,” seeing as it often the first objection raised against homeschooling. But what is socialization?
The process whereby a child learns to get along with and to behave similarly to other people in the group, largely through imitation as well as group pressure. Answers.com
The socialization occurring in the traditional school setting is actually tuning children in to group pressures and teaching them to conform to it. I am not convinced this is the best model for teaching tolerance since the focus is on conformity. Homeschools also socialize children, but that process tends to be toward adult roles rather than into positions within the school’s groups, because the primary “agents” of the socialization are adults rather than peers.
The structural environment, or what’s in a desk?
High schools and colleges do have some important commonalities in the physical way education is set up. Large numbers of students are seated in desks, facing the instructor who delivers information via lecture and notes on the board. Students take notes, study text books and turn in their work to be graded by someone who likely is not related to them. One might imagine this to be a rather daunting transition for the homeschooler, while being “old-hat” for the schooled student. These differences, however, are merely external. Superficial. Not to mention expected.
There is more to the structure of education than the external, however. And when we look deeper into education at the college level, we begin to see things wholly foreign to most traditional American schools. One notable difference which cannot be overlooked: professors do not take attendance. No one cares if you do not show up for class. No one calls your parents when you do not turn in assignments. No one cares if you fail. Except (maybe) you. College favors the independent, the self-starter, the internally motivated. It leaves everyone else behind.
And here, where the difference matters most, the homeschooler may actually have an advantage.
Hat Tip: “Go East,” they said…
Principled Discovery is a place to stop and discuss news and information related to faith, family and particularly education. Pour yourself a cup of tea and join the conversation! 
And, really, does anyone need 12 years “practice” sitting in a desk facing a teacher? Any 18-year-old, even if he were raised on Mars, upon walking into a room with all the chairs facing the same way, would be able to figure out the situation. My son just started an Arabic course at our local community college. I never thought to brief him on sitting and facing the teacher. He seems to be doing okay.
My question is: Who doesn’t have to ‘adjust’ to new situations? Do some folks seriously think that unless every possible circumstance and outcome are covered that kids will flounder helplessly until someone comes along to instruct them?
As a matter of fact, what I see is that kids coming from an institutional environment have trouble adjusting to new situations more than a child raised in a flexible environment.
Whether it is social or structural, what kids need to know to deal with different environments is the overarching principles that should govern our lives. Things like courtesy, practicality, moderation, courage, creativity- there are many tools that we can give our kids so that they can handle any environment.
I don’t follow this celebrity so I read her wikipedia entry — she practiced the social and structural environment of marriage for eight years before graduating to the real thing, but still failed at it?
Maybe she figures 12 years would have socialized her for it better.
And despite extensive structured schooling, she is by this account now in her 60s, still stumbling through the unschool-like environments of real life as a pretty lonely and sad-sounding social misfit.
Regardless of what you think about Dr. L, her opinions reflect the perceptions of society. How many times have we heard that HS kids won’t be able to handle college because they have ‘never’ been in a classroom situation?
Correction - still reading and “considering the source” to see if I can understand where she’s coming from, and it seems she did remain married to her second husband and business manager Lew Bishop. So okay, that makes more sense anyway, related to her education prescription above. She’d learned family failure as a child and relationship failure as an adult, so when Bishop left HIS family for her, instead of marrying him she prescribed years of structural practice living together as hmmm, environmental conditioning? — which “worked” for her, and so now that’s her surefire recipe for social and family success?
“They don’t care about attendance in college” is a fallacy. I was told the same thing when I went to college 20+ years ago. It’s simply not true. In your lower level classes the instructors are graduate teaching assistants that take attendance because they have the power to do so and they enjoy exercising that power. Tenured professors take attendance because their ego is wrapped up in their classroom abilities and they equate a full classroom as a validation of their ability as an instructor.
Hi Sunniemom. Sure, that misperception exists in society, along with a million other misperceptions about all kinds of education. But I’m not persuaded she reflects “society” any more or less than I do, or you do.
We could connect this to the ongoing conversation about whether homeschoolers (much less the Supreme Court!) should care what public opinion is, and are we working for acceptance or the perception of being a breed apart, too radical for the mainstream? Using Dr. Laura’s advice and Subway’s contest rules as examples that affect and reflect perceptions of society, does it matter to “homeschooling” and if so, how can we act to affect THAT?
My second son (who was always homeschooled) was interviewed for a newspaper on an article about homeschoolers adjusting to moving into public schools, whether public elementary, high school, or college. At the time he was a senior in college. One question was if he had to make adjustments because of the new situation when he started college. His response was as sunniemom said, “Yes, but doesn’t everyone?”
I personally don’t care what Dr. Laura thinks except that because she has so much influence with people, you hate to see that influenced used to give bad advice. I can hardly stand listening to her because she’s such a poor listener. I could care less about the Subway thing and I think any business has a right to exclude or include whoever it wants.
This answer might not make sense, JJ, but here goes- IMO much of what America embraces ideologically is aimed at our baser natures. Greed, instant gratification, lust, vengefulness, etc… and our ability to be noble and honorable is not being nurtured. Therefore, when such subjects come up for discussion, society (I can’t think of another word to use right now)tends to react with the emotional part of their brain, because their ability to reason has been starved to death. It is much less work to consume mental Cheetos, and it satisfies, but does not provide nourishment.
Dr.L, bless her heart, does usually attempt to get people to respond to life with their more honorable natures, and I imagine (I don’t know alot about her personal life) that much of what she advises is based on what she did wrong- don’t all of us tend to learn just as much from mistakes as from our successes?
The only way to conquer misconceptions is to keep reasoned conversation going on the topics that are the most essential to the highest standard of living- liberty to grow and succeed and be rewarded for our efforts, and to benefit others along the way.
That’s as philosophical as I can get on just one cuppa joe.
My conversations with college professors have indicated that homeschooled students may have the advantage in college. One reason is, they seem to be better prepare(their opinion, not just mine). The other reason is, they haven’t had eighteen plus years of structure. They aren’t burnt out. College is a new and exciting experience for them.
I wrote about a conversation I had with a college professor regarding homeschooling here:
http://lifeontheplanet.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/12/dont-you-homesc.html
My oldest daughter lived at home for her first two years of college. She said that college felt like a continuation of home schooling, that it took some time before she remembered that she was a college student.
My second daughter said college life was easier, even when it was busy because everything was in one place…
So far, no adjustment problems here.
Hear, hear, LOTP! This matches our experience too: college is new and exciting, and so far that’s been quite an advantage –
OK, I’ll take the role of agreeing a bit with Dr. Laura’s statement. I think that there is definitely a period of adjustment for homeschoolers entering college. As Patti’s son remarked, who doesn’t have to adjust. If the traditional schooled student has to adjust to being independent, doing the homework in order to be prepared for the test, seeking out assistance when it is needed (rather than having assistance thrust upon him); the homeschooled student has other adjustments.
The college campus includes a much larger group of students, which may provide an opportunity to make great friends or to feel very out of step.
The relationship between college professors/instructors is more professional and remote.
Deadlines are deadlines and grades are grades. Being busy the week before isn’t going to cut water with an instructor as justification for submitting work late.
College requires completing a lot of work on short deadlines. I’m not sure that all homeschoolers come prepared for this, especially to churn out several pages of writing a week.
To say that there are adjustments that must be made doesn’t have to imply that the homeschool situation is somehow inferior. I am an admissions liason for my alma mater and our admissions office tends to group homeschoolers and small highschools together. The student from rural Illinois has many of the same issues when he steps onto a campus of thousands.
It may seem obvious, but is it true?
***
I barely care but am just happy to see someone asking a question like this.
Nance
Sebastian, I agree. I’m not saying there isn’t an adjustment…it is an adjustment for everyone. No matter where you are coming from, it is your first taste of really being on your own for many youth…even those still living at home have a different role than they had before. It is just that I think that maybe homeschooling actually makes one of the “new” things easier…independence.
And COD, in six years of college, I never had a single TA or professor take attendance. In my lower level, general classes filled by TAs, it would have been impossible. There were 400 people in my biology class alone…and the chemistry class had more students than your average Kansas town topping 1000.
My experience was that professors care if you care. I got all the help I needed, and more because I asked. Because I lived an hour away and couldn’t always make office hours, every one I asked for help either stayed or invited me to their home or gave me their home number. Others in the same classes complained the profs were insensitive and “didn’t care.” I think the real difference is in how much you are willing to invest.
JJRoss, I think to say that homeschoolers benefit because of parental support isn’t really something we can quibble that much with. It is the predominant reason those who succeed in traditional schools succeed. Homeschooling sort of tends to select for involved and passionate parents.
But I don’t really think it is the only reason that homeschoolers seem to be having an advantage in college. It is easy to think of this adjustment as an extra hurdle for the homeschooled child, and I imagine that most of America believes that. Is it true? Maybe not, and those are the thoughts I was trying to explore.
My children are still young. I only know college from my perspective and it is all still a little philosophical for me at this point.
It just came to my mind that when I was talking to my oldest this last weekend, he was saying that when the guys he works with get done with a job (he is an HVAC tech working in the motor pool- gotta love the Army) they stand around waiting for orders and for the other guys to get done, while he will go and help the ones who aren’t done yet, or he will find something that needs done.
He said he credits this to homeschooling, because he has never had to sit around waiting on other people to finish their work, or wait to be told what to do next, and he has always been free to find something productive to do to stay busy (he is as hyper as DH). The other guys don’t like it when he does that because they say it makes them look bad, (which is just one more aspect of the pack mentality of punishing ambition and stifling a desire for excellence with ostracization and harassment.)
His biggest adjustment has been getting used to the lack of privacy. He seldom has a chance to be alone, and he says it wears him out. He goes for drives in the country just to listen to the silence.
So maybe we should reject the premise outright, view it as nonsensical as saying blondes have trouble adjusting to college because oh let’s see, they’ve spent the most time looking in the mirror and being admired by others?
Responding rationally to that would mean pointing out its irrationality, yes?
Yes. It would be nice to find a way to effectively point out the premise that public schools somehow prepare students for life through their structure. Just because most of us were raised that way doesn’t make it “right” or the only way.
It might also help people in realizing that when we look at the failings of public schools, more of the same structure probably isn’t going to help much.
” What is social life (socialization) if not the solving of social problems, behaving properly and pursuing aims acceptable to all?” Maria Montessorri’s description of socialization.
And I was fortunate enough to have never sat in a lecture during university… my experience at a smaller university was that of coming together and discussing material together–some material from texts, books, video, audio, and yes material presented or introduce by the instructor. I think this most confused the traditionally schooled kids as they expect to come in, take notes, and move on.
I have to side with COD on the great college attendance taking debate. My profs took role. I think it may have something to do with the size of the University you attend. I went to UL Lafayette (whose women’s softball team beat #1 ranked Florida Gators today in the College World Series. GEAUX CAJUNS!). There were no classes with 1000 students. Bioloy was about the largest with 3-4 hundred.
OK…the University of Kansas may or may not be representative. I have no idea. But either way, truancy officers won’t be coming after you, and your parents likely won’t find out about it until you tell them you dropped out.
The University I attended in Kiel, Germany didn’t take attendance, either. But then, neither did the high school I attended in Aurich. And I skipped a lot of classes (in the German high school). Bad me. We won’t talk about all the bad mes there, though. Maybe I did well in college because I got my proverbial freshman rebellion year out of my system my senior year of high school. Assuming you have to have one of those.
LOTP: “I went to UL Lafayette (whose women’s softball team beat #1 ranked Florida Gators today in the College World Series.”
Ha, I went to UF (whose women’s softball team hadn’t come to my attention as #1 ranked in the first place. GO GATORS!)
But I appreciate LOTP bringing sports into this academic adjustment conversation, because it reminded me I could throw Tim Tebow in Dr. Laura’s face, or at least into the mix.
Tim is succeeding spectacularly at UF — much better than I ever did! — although he was homeschooled on a farm and socialized by missionary parents.
Very unlike Tebow, I had academic parents and went to our huge university straight from the local high school, also huge, with more than 1,000 students not just in the school but in my graduating class. For me the environment change was non-existent, or at least seamless.
So if similar education structure were really the winning edge, *I* would be the one immortalized on a Heisman trophy!
Instead I was the one who nearly flunked out my first year, a combination of overconfidence and undersleeping we used to call partying but for Dr. Laura’s sake now, we could just as easily call “over-socializing. . .”
“Go Gators.”
JJ, you have my condolences.
Yea, Rouge! Yea, Blanc! Yea, Cajuns! Allons! The Cajuns play Texas A&M tonight. Wearing red, fingers crossed.
Just kidding, JJ!
“Over-socializing.” Yeah, that is what I did in Germany. Ahem…
Which brings in another question, I haven’t really decided my opinion on: homeschoolers pushing college at younger ages vs. the gap year.
Since the beginning of our home education endeavor, I have thought that one of the advantages was that kids did not have to jump whole body into college, but could take some classes in high school to get their feet wet, and then go full time when they were ready for the deep end.
“Going to college” doesn’t necessarily mean going full-time out-of-state. Personally, I think it’s great when kids go to a local college/university, as they continue to have the resources and support of family and friends. From the kids I have seen attending college, those who stay near home remain more rooted and focused than those who are completely on their own, but that’s just my perception.
Sunniemom, I agree. But then, you are sort of selecting for those who want to remain close to home and involved in their families. They have already put something ahead of “getting away,” whether that is cost or not actually wanting to get away.
That’s true- and those who go away to college to ‘get away’ have issues that aren’t related to academics but could have an impact on how well they do. Kids who are truly invested in their futures will choose a college that best meets their career goals, and will most likely do fine regardless of the location of their college.
I like to think that home educators are more likely to help their kids understand how to invest in their own futures, rather than just “You must go to college” because it is the default position.
You know, I have never really understood the desire for a college to be known as the best ‘party’ college. That’s a really expensive party.
Hey, I resemble that, Sunniemom!
I went because it was a Top Five journalism college (my chosen major) and the partying was just a very compelling side benefit for awhile — when I guess I wasn’t thinking too clearly despite my oh-so-structured high school honors and advanced placement credits, National Merit Scholar status, and so forth? Apparently none of that was very helpful to my um, adjustment. . .
Partying at Louisiana universities? I’m taking the fifth on that one.
However, in my defense, it was the school closest to home. I chose it for that reason!
Where else would you take a fifth but a PARTY?
Aww…look what happened because I left: The party’s over: KU falls from list
We were at number nine when I left.
(OK, so I really had nothing to do with partying while I was in college. I spent too much time hanging out in the German library in Wescoe or at work.)
JJ Ross - You amuse me greatly.
Dana - Never drink with the Germans. I know of which I speak.
I agree. College is entirely different than high school and MUCH MUCH better!!!
Too late, LOTP.
And Jeanne, thank you for your comment. I think college is better. You have more choice and more responsibility. Of course, that is why so many fail to begin with. I think the biggest thing we could do to prepare students for college is let them grow up a little more before expecting them to enter rather than just piling more tests on them in high school.
I was homeschooled for high school (and a couple of other years as well), and then went on to college. I LOVED college. I did have a rough first week - it was a bit intimidating to be completely on my own in a strange place (it was California, after all!), with my parents over 500 miles away, no car, and very little money. But once I made it through that first week, I made some friends and had a wonderful time in college. In fact, I think it was one of the highlights of my life, and I still have wonderful memories and lifelong friends as a result. I went to class regularly, learned because I wanted to learn, turned in papers on time, got excellent grades, worked part time, and graduated with high honors.
I had many friends in college who had attended public school. Most of them had a much harder time adjusting to college life than I did. My dh, who had attended public school all his life, was thrilled when he got a C on his first exam (”I didn’t fail!”). My best friend rebelled, dated young men her parents hated, and eventually dropped out. My first roommate struggled with friendships for several years, though she eventually got things figured out and I believe graduated reasonably happy.
I respectfully disagree with Dr. Laura on this point, and agree with Dana. The adjustments homeschoolers have to make are, in many cases (though certainly not all), far more superficial than the deeper adjustments required of students who have learned to “skate through” what public school requires.