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	<title>Comments on: NCLB testing bad for schools, good for homeschools?</title>
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	<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/</link>
	<description>If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3</description>
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		<title>By: StarChild-fm</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1061180</link>
		<dc:creator>StarChild-fm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1061180</guid>
		<description>NCLB is a problem in and of itself, but mostly it brings light to issues that have been around since education began in this country. Those who are gifted, well educated, and economically responsible will see to it that their children acquire the knowledge and education they need, whether it be through homeschool, private school, public school, or some combination thereof. These parents see that their children read, visit museums, learn, and generally acquire the educational and social skills to be successful members of society. We haven&#039;t really learned yet how to address the needs of those who are not gifted, whose parents are not well educated, who don&#039;t speak English, and who are not economically able to survive. While I know a number of sincere and successful homeschoolers, as a teacher/administrator I also know a number of parents who &quot;homeschool&quot; their children as a means of avoiding the attendance police. No education happening there. NCLB is an attempt, however little we may like it, to address these issues. Unfortunately, there&#039;s only so much money available for education and we simply see it moved from one place to another in trying to comply with various laws and programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NCLB is a problem in and of itself, but mostly it brings light to issues that have been around since education began in this country. Those who are gifted, well educated, and economically responsible will see to it that their children acquire the knowledge and education they need, whether it be through homeschool, private school, public school, or some combination thereof. These parents see that their children read, visit museums, learn, and generally acquire the educational and social skills to be successful members of society. We haven&#8217;t really learned yet how to address the needs of those who are not gifted, whose parents are not well educated, who don&#8217;t speak English, and who are not economically able to survive. While I know a number of sincere and successful homeschoolers, as a teacher/administrator I also know a number of parents who &#8220;homeschool&#8221; their children as a means of avoiding the attendance police. No education happening there. NCLB is an attempt, however little we may like it, to address these issues. Unfortunately, there&#8217;s only so much money available for education and we simply see it moved from one place to another in trying to comply with various laws and programs.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1052218</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1052218</guid>
		<description>I do not understand how the powers that be can continue to ask us to teach all students the same when not all students learn the same way and have different needs. The conflict between NCLB and IDEA drives me crazy because I&#039;m in trouble whichever law I am told to follow. I&#039;m not opposed to accountability but not when we have to sacrifice our students to be accountable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not understand how the powers that be can continue to ask us to teach all students the same when not all students learn the same way and have different needs. The conflict between NCLB and IDEA drives me crazy because I&#8217;m in trouble whichever law I am told to follow. I&#8217;m not opposed to accountability but not when we have to sacrifice our students to be accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: Twenty Items of Interest (v.43) &#124; Caffeinated Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1050635</link>
		<dc:creator>Twenty Items of Interest (v.43) &#124; Caffeinated Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1050635</guid>
		<description>[...] 8.&#160; NCLB Testing is a waste of time for public schools and home schools. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 8.&nbsp; NCLB Testing is a waste of time for public schools and home schools. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049514</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049514</guid>
		<description>Yes, and?  Surely that just proves the point about how a bad barrel can spoil everyone in it -- and spew some vinegar out on home education too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and?  Surely that just proves the point about how a bad barrel can spoil everyone in it &#8212; and spew some vinegar out on home education too.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049512</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049512</guid>
		<description>JJ-
&quot;Passing the trash&quot; is the phrase that teachers use to describe the process of transferring inept teachers, as well as those accused of misconduct, to other schools. It isn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; phrase, which is why I put in in quotes, and it certainly isn&#039;t a &#039;homeschooler bashing public school&#039; thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ-<br />
&#8220;Passing the trash&#8221; is the phrase that teachers use to describe the process of transferring inept teachers, as well as those accused of misconduct, to other schools. It isn&#8217;t <i>my</i> phrase, which is why I put in in quotes, and it certainly isn&#8217;t a &#8216;homeschooler bashing public school&#8217; thing.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049494</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049494</guid>
		<description>Case in point about rethinking how we think and sound -- homeschool parents perpetuating a phrase demeaning any human being as &quot;trash&quot; (and not even in reference to child abusers, just to staff members who aren&#039;t &quot;the best.&quot;)

And I have to disagree with the whole premise, not just its unfortunate phrasing. Situational psychology research persuades me thjat public schooling won&#039;t be hunky-dory when we can get rid of some problem individuals who don&#039;t measure up, can&#039;t make the grade (students OR teachers.) Just like it&#039;s not about the money, the entire complex culture of School needs transformation.  And public schooling won&#039;t be fine if only the good parents would come back from private schools and charters and home education, and get involved again. 

&quot;“You can’t be a sweet cucumber in a vinegar barrel.”

Stanford psychologist Philip Zimbardo details how “place” can win over “person” through concepts like institutionalization, escalating dehumanization, stress and stereotyping, the seduction of boredom, the evil of inaction and much more.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Psychology situationists might describe schools and organized homeschool groups as either “poor” or “privileged” worlds that shape the choices of all individuals good and bad within them. The situation defines, inspires and/or degrades the individual by influencing one’s responses, thinking, independence, the quality of one’s relationships and choices, perhaps even our humanity itself. . .
    
This article lights up some high-score bonuses in the pinball game of my thinking. Anonymity, boredom, intellectual impoverishment, an environment where aggression against others is tolerated, modeled, perhaps even rewarded . . . sounds like some places I’ve fallen into, school environments, workplaces, legislative offices, home education “support” too. (Thankfully never a family environment, but I meet many not so lucky.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/zimbardo05/zimbardo05_index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it&#039;s the  the whole vinegar barrel&lt;/a&gt;, not a few apocryphal sour cucumbers we can&#039;t quite ever find and eradicate -- that&#039;s pickling kids and teachers and whole families, thus in need of America&#039;s most creative, mighty, highest-minded efforts at change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Case in point about rethinking how we think and sound &#8212; homeschool parents perpetuating a phrase demeaning any human being as &#8220;trash&#8221; (and not even in reference to child abusers, just to staff members who aren&#8217;t &#8220;the best.&#8221;)</p>
<p>And I have to disagree with the whole premise, not just its unfortunate phrasing. Situational psychology research persuades me thjat public schooling won&#8217;t be hunky-dory when we can get rid of some problem individuals who don&#8217;t measure up, can&#8217;t make the grade (students OR teachers.) Just like it&#8217;s not about the money, the entire complex culture of School needs transformation.  And public schooling won&#8217;t be fine if only the good parents would come back from private schools and charters and home education, and get involved again. </p>
<p>&#8220;“You can’t be a sweet cucumber in a vinegar barrel.”</p>
<p>Stanford psychologist Philip Zimbardo details how “place” can win over “person” through concepts like institutionalization, escalating dehumanization, stress and stereotyping, the seduction of boredom, the evil of inaction and much more.</p>
<blockquote><p>Psychology situationists might describe schools and organized homeschool groups as either “poor” or “privileged” worlds that shape the choices of all individuals good and bad within them. The situation defines, inspires and/or degrades the individual by influencing one’s responses, thinking, independence, the quality of one’s relationships and choices, perhaps even our humanity itself. . .</p>
<p>This article lights up some high-score bonuses in the pinball game of my thinking. Anonymity, boredom, intellectual impoverishment, an environment where aggression against others is tolerated, modeled, perhaps even rewarded . . . sounds like some places I’ve fallen into, school environments, workplaces, legislative offices, home education “support” too. (Thankfully never a family environment, but I meet many not so lucky.)</p></blockquote>
<p>So <a href="http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/zimbardo05/zimbardo05_index.html" rel="nofollow">it&#8217;s the  the whole vinegar barrel</a>, not a few apocryphal sour cucumbers we can&#8217;t quite ever find and eradicate &#8212; that&#8217;s pickling kids and teachers and whole families, thus in need of America&#8217;s most creative, mighty, highest-minded efforts at change.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049481</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049481</guid>
		<description>I agree, Dana, that this letter is right on track... until he gets to home education and goes over the logic cliff.

I do see quite a bit of teacher bashing, but the media is not helpful in this area. Bad news is news and good news is boring.

There is a constant flow of sensational reports of teachers molesting students and being involved in other less-than-savory activities. This is sad and very alarming, but we don&#039;t live on lilypads- we know that there are bad people in every vocation on the planet.

I&#039;ve blogged about how there are inept teachers in the sytem, but IMO it&#039;s the teacher&#039;s unions that handcuff admins and principals so that they cannot find and keep the best teachers. I hear complaints from good teachers and dedicated principals quite often about how they are required to &#039;pass the trash&#039; from one school to another. I think teacher &#039;bashing&#039; would be greatly reduced by empowering communities and schools to be able to recruit the best and brightest, and dismiss those who have proven to be unsuited for the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Dana, that this letter is right on track&#8230; until he gets to home education and goes over the logic cliff.</p>
<p>I do see quite a bit of teacher bashing, but the media is not helpful in this area. Bad news is news and good news is boring.</p>
<p>There is a constant flow of sensational reports of teachers molesting students and being involved in other less-than-savory activities. This is sad and very alarming, but we don&#8217;t live on lilypads- we know that there are bad people in every vocation on the planet.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve blogged about how there are inept teachers in the sytem, but IMO it&#8217;s the teacher&#8217;s unions that handcuff admins and principals so that they cannot find and keep the best teachers. I hear complaints from good teachers and dedicated principals quite often about how they are required to &#8216;pass the trash&#8217; from one school to another. I think teacher &#8216;bashing&#8217; would be greatly reduced by empowering communities and schools to be able to recruit the best and brightest, and dismiss those who have proven to be unsuited for the job.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049470</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049470</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s discouraging to hear homeschool parents being defensive and counterattacking &quot;public schools&quot; when Dana&#039;s main point was that as a proposal for new direction to the Congress and the fed ED, this is a fine letter about public school reform.  Much of it I could have written myself about NCLB.

We can choose whether to keep thinking and sounding like a beleaguered fringe interest group, or not.  I see all the political stars aligning for the ascendence of intelligent public debate about well-organized, practical programs and choices, universal access without universal mandates, non-ideological governance  accountable to US rather than the other way around, enhanced personal privacy, etc etc -- not one kind of schooling as social control but for all kinds of real education, for the good of America.  

Poorly educated kids who grow up to be poor voters, workers, parents are a dangerous problem for all of us, no matter how they get that way.  I&#039;m genuinely excited about the huge opening we have right now, to rethink our own thinking about education politics and leap forward together instead of shooting at each other over grudge-holding identity politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s discouraging to hear homeschool parents being defensive and counterattacking &#8220;public schools&#8221; when Dana&#8217;s main point was that as a proposal for new direction to the Congress and the fed ED, this is a fine letter about public school reform.  Much of it I could have written myself about NCLB.</p>
<p>We can choose whether to keep thinking and sounding like a beleaguered fringe interest group, or not.  I see all the political stars aligning for the ascendence of intelligent public debate about well-organized, practical programs and choices, universal access without universal mandates, non-ideological governance  accountable to US rather than the other way around, enhanced personal privacy, etc etc &#8212; not one kind of schooling as social control but for all kinds of real education, for the good of America.  </p>
<p>Poorly educated kids who grow up to be poor voters, workers, parents are a dangerous problem for all of us, no matter how they get that way.  I&#8217;m genuinely excited about the huge opening we have right now, to rethink our own thinking about education politics and leap forward together instead of shooting at each other over grudge-holding identity politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna-Marie</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049439</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna-Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049439</guid>
		<description>Wow. These public education types just can&#039;t help themselves can they? They will not be satisfied until they have my kids. Haven&#039;t they ruined enough already? Why do they need mine too??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. These public education types just can&#8217;t help themselves can they? They will not be satisfied until they have my kids. Haven&#8217;t they ruined enough already? Why do they need mine too??</p>
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		<title>By: Summer</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/01/22/nclb-testing-bad-for-schools-good-for-homeschools/comment-page-1/#comment-1049301</link>
		<dc:creator>Summer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1137#comment-1049301</guid>
		<description>Wow, his logic is maddening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, his logic is maddening.</p>
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