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	<title>Comments on: An undergraduate research group&#8217;s report to lawmakers on homeschooling</title>
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	<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/</link>
	<description>If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do? --Psalm 11:3</description>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1063174</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1063174</guid>
		<description>Terrific point, Dana.  Not only do we benefit rather than harm our communities but we ARE those communities, good-citizen parents living in the same culture with the same families we love as any non-homeschooling mom, and library cards and grocery shopping or laundry to do, etc.  

I despair at how counterproductive it is, when we set ourselves apart and draw battle lines because we&#039;re so leery of being subsumed into public schooling. 

If any homeschooler reading this feels NOT part of the culture and local community, I suggest it&#039;s not the actual home education that makes them feel so different and apart, but their own religious and political beliefs.  This is the elephant in the homeschooling living room, that most home education debate is more about religion than education. (Even the discussion about the public library as educational resource for the whole community has been surprisingly -- to me -- more about cultural Christianity and behavior/morals, than knowledge and ideas and education freedom.)

My local homeschool list is currently confusing religious freedom with home education and parent rights again, because of this WND article:

YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms
Decides children need more &#039;focus&#039; despite testing above grade levels

Posted: March 11, 2009
11:25 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily   

[Notice that in all the court cases mentioned, from CA to NC to Germany, religion is the central concern plus mental fitness to parent, not academic education.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific point, Dana.  Not only do we benefit rather than harm our communities but we ARE those communities, good-citizen parents living in the same culture with the same families we love as any non-homeschooling mom, and library cards and grocery shopping or laundry to do, etc.  </p>
<p>I despair at how counterproductive it is, when we set ourselves apart and draw battle lines because we&#8217;re so leery of being subsumed into public schooling. </p>
<p>If any homeschooler reading this feels NOT part of the culture and local community, I suggest it&#8217;s not the actual home education that makes them feel so different and apart, but their own religious and political beliefs.  This is the elephant in the homeschooling living room, that most home education debate is more about religion than education. (Even the discussion about the public library as educational resource for the whole community has been surprisingly &#8212; to me &#8212; more about cultural Christianity and behavior/morals, than knowledge and ideas and education freedom.)</p>
<p>My local homeschool list is currently confusing religious freedom with home education and parent rights again, because of this WND article:</p>
<p>YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK<br />
Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms<br />
Decides children need more &#8216;focus&#8217; despite testing above grade levels</p>
<p>Posted: March 11, 2009<br />
11:25 pm Eastern</p>
<p>By Bob Unruh<br />
© 2009 WorldNetDaily   </p>
<p>[Notice that in all the court cases mentioned, from CA to NC to Germany, religion is the central concern plus mental fitness to parent, not academic education.]</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062829</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062829</guid>
		<description>Oops...that was from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.heartofthemattermagazine.com/2008/06/how-does-homeschooling-benefit-society.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an article&lt;/a&gt; I wrote some time ago for Heart of the Matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8230;that was from <a href="http://www.heartofthemattermagazine.com/2008/06/how-does-homeschooling-benefit-society.html" rel="nofollow">an article</a> I wrote some time ago for Heart of the Matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062828</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062828</guid>
		<description>I have a link to share. :)  I forgot about this until the library discussion, but it is a great quote nonetheless: 

&lt;em&gt;She [Sally Reed, National President of Friends of the Library] said something interesting that I think applies to homeschooling as well as libraries. Her comment was that when we advocate we don&#039;t necessarily want people to become library users but library supporters. She said she had her own epiphany in a Rotary Club meeting where the speaker was presenting info about the city&#039;s bus system. She was expecting him to get up and tell about how many bus routes they had and how many people rode the bus and how efficient it was and that sort of thing. Instead he got up and spoke about how much the bus system was saving the city in terms of reduced traffic; how many more parking lots and street lanes they would have to add if all the people riding the buses started driving, environmental impact, etc.&lt;/em&gt;

I believe talking about rights and limitations on governmental power are important to talk about.  But people listen more when you aren&#039;t just some fringe group asking for tolerance.  We do benefit our communities and I think articulating some of those reasons is a good way to advance our arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a link to share. <img src='http://principleddiscovery.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I forgot about this until the library discussion, but it is a great quote nonetheless: </p>
<p><em>She [Sally Reed, National President of Friends of the Library] said something interesting that I think applies to homeschooling as well as libraries. Her comment was that when we advocate we don&#8217;t necessarily want people to become library users but library supporters. She said she had her own epiphany in a Rotary Club meeting where the speaker was presenting info about the city&#8217;s bus system. She was expecting him to get up and tell about how many bus routes they had and how many people rode the bus and how efficient it was and that sort of thing. Instead he got up and spoke about how much the bus system was saving the city in terms of reduced traffic; how many more parking lots and street lanes they would have to add if all the people riding the buses started driving, environmental impact, etc.</em></p>
<p>I believe talking about rights and limitations on governmental power are important to talk about.  But people listen more when you aren&#8217;t just some fringe group asking for tolerance.  We do benefit our communities and I think articulating some of those reasons is a good way to advance our arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062538</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062538</guid>
		<description>I should send you some links. . . :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should send you some links. . . <img src='http://principleddiscovery.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062503</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062503</guid>
		<description>JJ,

A smilie is a smilie, and it doesn&#039;t mean that I don&#039;t mean what I say or that I am trying to cover anything up. I am a happy person who uses smilies alot. Try not to read more into that than it is. 

I gave my own view of the difference between living according to cultural norms or according to principle. Sometimes these are complimentary, and sometimes they conflict. When they conflict, principle should win. I understand the idea of knowing one&#039;s audience when one is presenting a persuasive argument, but who exactly am I supposed to be persuading? The gov&#039;t to observe Constitutional rights of citizens to live their lives in freedom? That children deserve the best education their parents can provide for them without burdensome gov&#039;t regulation and restrictions on school choice? That people should sometimes mind their own business when others are living their lives and not doing anything immoral, illegal, or fattening? (just kidding about the fattening part) How does &#039;cultural intelligence&#039; affect any of these arguments that are principle based issues, not cultural issues?

I don&#039;t know what you are resting your &#039;case&#039; on- I wasn&#039;t even aware you were making a &#039;case&#039;- but do you object to my stating that I think our educational system and those who critique homeschooling are behind the times in educational opportunity and methodologies... that I used the word &#039;clueless&#039;...? FWIW, I don&#039;t communicate regularly with anyone in or out of the homeschool community who sounds like &quot;rebel warriors ready to shoot the evil revenoors coming for our mountain moonshine stills.&quot; Maybe I should come hang out in your neck of the woods and meet some of these folks- I bet it&#039;s entertaining if nothing else- I used to love Li&#039;l Abner.:D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ,</p>
<p>A smilie is a smilie, and it doesn&#8217;t mean that I don&#8217;t mean what I say or that I am trying to cover anything up. I am a happy person who uses smilies alot. Try not to read more into that than it is. </p>
<p>I gave my own view of the difference between living according to cultural norms or according to principle. Sometimes these are complimentary, and sometimes they conflict. When they conflict, principle should win. I understand the idea of knowing one&#8217;s audience when one is presenting a persuasive argument, but who exactly am I supposed to be persuading? The gov&#8217;t to observe Constitutional rights of citizens to live their lives in freedom? That children deserve the best education their parents can provide for them without burdensome gov&#8217;t regulation and restrictions on school choice? That people should sometimes mind their own business when others are living their lives and not doing anything immoral, illegal, or fattening? (just kidding about the fattening part) How does &#8216;cultural intelligence&#8217; affect any of these arguments that are principle based issues, not cultural issues?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what you are resting your &#8216;case&#8217; on- I wasn&#8217;t even aware you were making a &#8216;case&#8217;- but do you object to my stating that I think our educational system and those who critique homeschooling are behind the times in educational opportunity and methodologies&#8230; that I used the word &#8216;clueless&#8217;&#8230;? FWIW, I don&#8217;t communicate regularly with anyone in or out of the homeschool community who sounds like &#8220;rebel warriors ready to shoot the evil revenoors coming for our mountain moonshine stills.&#8221; Maybe I should come hang out in your neck of the woods and meet some of these folks- I bet it&#8217;s entertaining if nothing else- I used to love Li&#8217;l Abner.:D</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Ross</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062369</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062369</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t subscribe to the idea of living according to cultural values- I endeavor to live by a core of virtues and principles that remain unchanged, regardless of the Recommended Selections from the Cultural Fad of the Month Club. :)&quot;


What&#039;s the smilie for at the end of this um, home education PR?  Meant to say you don&#039;t really mean this like it sounds,  or that you DO mean it but want the cover of claiming it was just a harmless joke?

I&#039;ve seen no recommendation among home education advocates that we should toss our values and and principles to live according to cultural currents. I am only recommending we ARGUE with more cultural intelligence.


&quot;Do they even know how clueless they sound? They are the ones behind the times in educational opportunity and methodologies.&quot;


I rest my case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t subscribe to the idea of living according to cultural values- I endeavor to live by a core of virtues and principles that remain unchanged, regardless of the Recommended Selections from the Cultural Fad of the Month Club. <img src='http://principleddiscovery.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the smilie for at the end of this um, home education PR?  Meant to say you don&#8217;t really mean this like it sounds,  or that you DO mean it but want the cover of claiming it was just a harmless joke?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen no recommendation among home education advocates that we should toss our values and and principles to live according to cultural currents. I am only recommending we ARGUE with more cultural intelligence.</p>
<p>&#8220;Do they even know how clueless they sound? They are the ones behind the times in educational opportunity and methodologies.&#8221;</p>
<p>I rest my case.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062332</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062332</guid>
		<description>I think the food analogy is still valid- there is a vast difference between making sure food is free of bacteria and other contaminants, and crafting legislation that creates a set of standards for nutrition to be applied to families with children. We are talking about criminalizing Fruit Loops and Happy Meals and baby fat. Which is very analogous to how many view education- as a gov&#039;t concern instead of a private function of the family.

I don&#039;t subscribe to the idea of living according to cultural values- I endeavor to live by a core of virtues and principles that remain unchanged, regardless of the Recommended Selections from the Cultural Fad of the Month Club. :)

The idea of a home educator having to keep attendance records cracks me up. I even have problems with the hourly requirements- there are so many things that we do to learn in a natural environment that keeping track is mind-numbing and quite frankly, a waste of my time. Ditto providing a list of textbooks to the state. Do they even know how clueless they sound? They are the ones behind the times in educational opportunity and methodologies. 

I don&#039;t know a thing about the kids that crafted this report, but I stand by my opinion it was shallow, and I&#039;ve graded enough reports when I was teaching full-time to recognize a night before rush job when I see one. It&#039;s a pity of these stuff is taken seriously by legislators who are &#039;too busy&#039; to read a well-researched paper that would provide them the needed information to govern the citizens to which they are accountable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the food analogy is still valid- there is a vast difference between making sure food is free of bacteria and other contaminants, and crafting legislation that creates a set of standards for nutrition to be applied to families with children. We are talking about criminalizing Fruit Loops and Happy Meals and baby fat. Which is very analogous to how many view education- as a gov&#8217;t concern instead of a private function of the family.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t subscribe to the idea of living according to cultural values- I endeavor to live by a core of virtues and principles that remain unchanged, regardless of the Recommended Selections from the Cultural Fad of the Month Club. <img src='http://principleddiscovery.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The idea of a home educator having to keep attendance records cracks me up. I even have problems with the hourly requirements- there are so many things that we do to learn in a natural environment that keeping track is mind-numbing and quite frankly, a waste of my time. Ditto providing a list of textbooks to the state. Do they even know how clueless they sound? They are the ones behind the times in educational opportunity and methodologies. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know a thing about the kids that crafted this report, but I stand by my opinion it was shallow, and I&#8217;ve graded enough reports when I was teaching full-time to recognize a night before rush job when I see one. It&#8217;s a pity of these stuff is taken seriously by legislators who are &#8216;too busy&#8217; to read a well-researched paper that would provide them the needed information to govern the citizens to which they are accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: betty</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062314</link>
		<dc:creator>betty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062314</guid>
		<description>I think the important debate for the homeschool community on this issue, isn&#039;t between homeschoolers and random university studies or governmental regulators...but within our community on how we ourselves support a varied home education movement. Is there only one model, the HSDLA supported one? Or are we &quot;allowing&quot; and supporting other models?  As the leader of an inclusive group in my community, it&#039;s a constant battle to keep HSDLA modeled homeschoolers from &quot;attacking&quot; more moderate even liberal homeschoolers for a variety of reasons; their methods, their lack of the right faith, their parenting styles, etc. etc. etc.

For me, as a &quot;homeschool leader&quot;, my chief and only reason I remained involved in homeschool support is to make sure that secular and liberal homeschoolers are completely aware of their options and are actively supported and encouraged in whatever manner we&#039;re able to muster that support..and so my conversations are always aimed at other homeschoolers, trying to get them to see the need to allow more diversity within their ranks and not fear homeschooling supporting a worldview they can&#039;t agree with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the important debate for the homeschool community on this issue, isn&#8217;t between homeschoolers and random university studies or governmental regulators&#8230;but within our community on how we ourselves support a varied home education movement. Is there only one model, the HSDLA supported one? Or are we &#8220;allowing&#8221; and supporting other models?  As the leader of an inclusive group in my community, it&#8217;s a constant battle to keep HSDLA modeled homeschoolers from &#8220;attacking&#8221; more moderate even liberal homeschoolers for a variety of reasons; their methods, their lack of the right faith, their parenting styles, etc. etc. etc.</p>
<p>For me, as a &#8220;homeschool leader&#8221;, my chief and only reason I remained involved in homeschool support is to make sure that secular and liberal homeschoolers are completely aware of their options and are actively supported and encouraged in whatever manner we&#8217;re able to muster that support..and so my conversations are always aimed at other homeschoolers, trying to get them to see the need to allow more diversity within their ranks and not fear homeschooling supporting a worldview they can&#8217;t agree with.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana Hanley</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062282</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062282</guid>
		<description>We have an attendance requirement, but not a record-keeping requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have an attendance requirement, but not a record-keeping requirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Carnival of Homeschooling: Top Ten School Supplies Edition &#124; Life Nurturing Education</title>
		<link>http://principleddiscovery.com/2009/03/08/an-undergraduate-research-groups-report-to-lawmakers-on-homeschooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1062274</link>
		<dc:creator>Carnival of Homeschooling: Top Ten School Supplies Edition &#124; Life Nurturing Education</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=1151#comment-1062274</guid>
		<description>[...] Principled Discovery discusses An undergraduate research group&#8217;s report to lawmakers on homeschooling. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Principled Discovery discusses An undergraduate research group&#8217;s report to lawmakers on homeschooling. [...]</p>
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