The Carnival of Homeschooling is up where you can learn what Renae’s top ten school supplies are. I’m a bit concerned now for the future of our home education since we do not even own an electric pencil sharpener. Careful readers of the comments will also note that Anne-Marie of The Mom-O-Sphere thinks she is the only homeschool mom in the world who does not use the library.
Now, I know she isn’t. I can’t begin to divine her reasons (though accruing fines have forced us into occasional library sabbaticals), but I know there is at least a small group of homeschoolers who are opposed to the whole public library system. The brief discussion I caught years ago dealt with concerns about the American Library Association and a conviction that the public library system was a misuse of tax money and that we/they should not patronize it.
So I’m curious. How far off the deep end would the ALA have to go before you would stop patronizing your local library? And have you ever thought of the library system as yet another public entitlement-type program?
Thanks for faithfully reminding my of the time. I’m actually still up, and it’s well past midnight.
I have thought of the library as an entitlement program. Since we live outside the city limits, we have to pay to check out books. Our taxes do not go to support it, so I’m fine with that. It does mean that we go less frequently though.
We check out most of our books at a local church library. They don’t charge anything, and they have a playground the kids are allowed to play on.
I’m looking forward to this discussion. Maybe Anne-Marie will share how she gets by without using the library.
Oh, I’ll have to ponder this one. Libraries existed even before tax supported public libraries. There is an interesting scene about a private scientific library in Carry On, Mr Bowditch. There was a private library in downtown Cincinnati. It is still there and I think that it is still a private, subscription library.
I think that you could make a convincing arguement that a public library is a public service that is best achieved by pooling the community’s resources, much in the way that fire service and emergency medical services are provided by most communities from tax revenues.
On the other hand, you could make a counter arguement that what some libraries provide as a matter of policy isn’t as much to the public good as it was fifty or a hundred years ago.
I guess that the personal good that our family derives from the library outweighs the potential negatives of having them also purchase and lend books that I disagree with. While we were in Hawaii, I was able to influence the library system in part by taking part in annual library service surveys. I also hope that my use of certain books helps to keep those titles in the library system.
Here, I’m using a base library. One of my self-appointed missions is to lead them to purchase a better homeschool and education supportive collection and to make the library one of the points of contact for new and newly arriving homeschoolers.
I can’t imagine life without the public library. Yes, I suppose it is an entitlement program, in a way, since it is supported by tax dollars. But then again, we don’t think of the fire and police departments as entitlement programs, though supported the same way. You can see I’m riffing off Sebastian’s comment here; hard not to since it’s so concise.
What would the ALA do to get me out of the library? I don’t know. Promote anti-Christian books while removing all the Christian ones? Advertise that there’s free p*rn on the computers?
There is plenty I don’t like at the library. But there is far, far more that is valuable. I don’t have the thousands of dollars a year to buy all the books we use.
The library is a reflection of the culture in which it’s placed. I don’t like very aspect of the culture I live in, but I do live here. I have the discernment to choose appropriate materials and reject the inappropriate ones. My kids are learning to do the same.
It would take a lot for me to reject my local library. I have to agree with Margaret on the P*rn issue. If that was ever allowed it would be the last time that I step foot in the building.
I am hoping to get my library to carry more of the new releases for children. They seem to carry a lot of new releases for adults, young children, but not chapter type books for the kids. I was told because they don’t have a good turnover rate. It is very frustrating to my 11 yr not to be able to find books that he would like to read. We are constantly giving them suggestions, but we never see the books.
Sorry – I’m not well-off enough to have the luxury of considering public libraries entitlement programs! And considering the amount of fines we’ve paid in, I hardly feel I’ve gotten it all for free.
I feel that way about a lot of entitlement programs, but I also know that my money is going regardless to support this stuff. I might as well use the stuff that is good and leave the rest.
Our library hired a homeschool expert to put on homeschool programs twice a week! I think that’s pretty neat, but it is very well-attended so a bit much for Elf.
The library as a public entitlement? Like the roads we drive on and street lights and sewer systems? How would you boycott those? Quibbles aside, the library has few restrictions on who can use its services. one can always request books and join the board to have influence on the books purchased. As a frequent user, my family’s input is listened to and respected. As a previous commentator said, the library is a reflection of the culture in which it’s placed. As part of the culture, we have the responsibility to use our influence for good.
Or turn it around — homeschoolers politically working against the ALA and the tremendous good of public libraries, would be enough to turn me against their homeschooling.
Hmmm…the ALA isn’t a necessity, IMO. I’m not a huge advocate of everything needing to be under some huge organizational umbrella to operate effectively. The umbrella usually screws things up because it doesn’t focus on individual needs of the communities. It gets top-heavy and money starts seeping through the cracks instead of getting where it needs to go. I’d rather see funds going directly to local libraries to enact the programs that would fit their communities best. What works for Woodville, Alabama would probably not fly at all in Dover, Maine. I’ve been to some private libraries, and they are every bit as well-stocked and beneficial as public libraries, and in some cases can offer more because they are free of gov’t constraints such as funding. If the community wants the place to be open on Sunday, then it is open on Sunday because the folks support it.
As for the library itself, it’s the kind of ‘entitlement’ that I can live with, even though I don’t equate it with roads, bridges, and emergency services, it’s a good thing to have the services a library can provide. I’d rather see it as a free market operation, but it isn’t a hill I plan to die on any time soon.
I’d reject the local library if it became a place that was not safe for children. I don’t know exactly what it would take for me to believe it was an unhealthy place for my kids, but if my Supermom Spidey Sense told me that the library was bad, I’d stop using it. I’m a Mom- I don’t need a reason.
Universities, newspapers and libraries inspire my support for the same life-of-the-mind reasons home education does.
But they violate my trust and lessen my support when they don’t treat me (my private interests and needs, personal data and identity) with high regard.
Imagine libraries became more like schools, for example, keeping cumulative files on us and then reporting or selling to the government and/or corporate marketers. . .universities are doing this to my horror, and it’s happened with home education info (private info turned over to military recruiters, curriculum marketers and dues-collecting support groups slash political associations.)
Or suppose like rogue newspaper reporters (Janet Cooke, Jayson Blair) we had to worry about rogue librarians corrupting the system and its collections, defrauding us intellectually so that we couldn’t rely on the library’s integrity anymore. That would lessen my love.
But it’s amazing (and comforting to MY Spidey Sense)that these systemic betrayals creeping into every aspect of modern life, remain virtually unheard of in public libraries.
[we do not even own an electric pencil sharpener] I don’t either. I don’t even have one of those wall mounted ones that operates with a crank. Just a little one that goes in our pencil box. Boy was I annoyed when Marissa pilfered it to sharpen her eyeliner!
We use the library a lot. We already have more books in our house than we can store. Our whole basement renovation is centered on adding book storage space. I figure that I have to pay taxes anyway. I can live with my money paying for a public library.
Sorry, here’s the correct link for the university’s credit card deal with the devil — I was doing too many things at once.
From Calvin and Hobbes- “County library? Reference desk, please. Hello? Yes, I need a word definition. Well, that’s the problem. I don’t know how to spell it and I’m not allowed to say it. Could you just rattle off all the swear words you know and I’ll stop you when…Hello?”
Love that.
That’s the kind we have, Julie! It used to have a little compartment to catch the shavings but the kids lost that. Why won’t they see the necessity of sharpening pencils over the trash can…or some container other than the table they’re working at?
One thing interesting I read relatively recently is just how actively the library seeks out the input from homeschoolers. Apparently, they’ve found that the books we request are used frequently by everyone. It makes sense. We use a lot of books for school and do a bit of research on what we think is best. I don’t know that I’d ever do that if my children were in school and the only books I’d request would be those everyone was talking about…and they’re normally already there anyway.
It is one of the ways that homeschooling benefits communities.
Our library’s funds are directly based on how many books are checked out each year. This explains, at least in part, why they love us homeschoolers. We are their bread and butter.
I’ve never really thought about libraries as an entitlement but I suppose to some degree I’ve treated as such. My children and I have written letters to our city officials asking them not to cut funding, personnel, or hours. I think libraries are extremely important, but I also think that the communities would step up and open private libraries if tax dollars no longer funded them. At least I’d be on the forefront of such an endeavor.
I think the only thing that would keep me from my local library (and this after a fight) would be if they were unsafe or blantantly pushing an agenda (sexual, religious, political) on my children. By that I mean, if I walked in my library one day and discovered they’d thrown away every Christian book or were reading nothing but liberal garbage for storytime.
Two of our libraries are possibly closing and there is a bit of a fight going on to keep them open. They are the two smallest libraries…I’ve been in church libraries which are larger, but both are in the middle of densely populated areas of the city. Great for the kids in the area to walk down to after school.
There used to be times of day I avoided the library. After the high school lets out by the one we use most it gets to be an insane place to try to go. But then I discovered the one on the north side of town has an awesome librarian who doesn’t tolerate that sort of behavior.
I was in there and didn’t even realize the high school nearby had let out. Later I looked at the clock and realized it had been amazingly quiet. After a couple of visits, we saw some horseplay and how the librarian dealt with and realized the kids in there just knew what was expected and respected the rules. Even wild high schoolers can be respectful if they know it is expected.
Is this a bit like asking when we would divorce our husbands, disown our children or kill ourselves? You have to imagine an unthinkable transformation. . .
We all have our limits, I guess.
Public libraries are supported by taxes? I thought it was by my overdue fines. Just kidding! After living for many years in a foreign country with no English library or book store, I am thrilled to have a library!
The funding of public libraries is unconstitutional, as is two thirds of the budget. But since no one cares for the Constitution anymore hap-ad-it and support your local pork barrel. Why should your self interests be denied?
And just how would that be, Alex? You may have a case for the 0.9% of library funding which comes from federal funds, but the rest?
The Tenth Amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
It is a power reserved to the state. I confess I don’t know my state Constitution that well, but I don’t think there are provisions in it against the formation of public libraries.
The Constitution limits federal powers, but not the activities of local communities. As it should be.
I feel kind of special being mentioned in someone else’s blog.
I’m not exactly anti-library. The issue of public funding only bothers me to a point. But it does not affect my reasons for not using the library for homeschooling.
The public library is a secular institution & does not readily acquire books I deem as edifying. Actually, I don’t think ours readily acquires much of anything. Every time I have looked for book, they don’t have it. So, I quit looking.
My husband and I are very much book-buyers as opposed to book-readers. We have to own what we read. He keeps his in pristine order while I dog-ear, underline & make notes in the margins of mine.
So, for homeschooling, I acquire a lot of books. Several people in our extended families have purchased or gifted their used books to us too. And of course, there’s tons of info on the internet too.
I can’t say I will never use the library for homeschooling. I’m just saying it’s not a current necessity for our homeschooling.
I don’t get this argument. ALA does not necessarily equal your local library. Girl Scouts USA can be freaky and fringe at times. We’re still Scouts, not because we agree with the national agenda, but because we love our troop, we love the founding principles of Girl Scouts and it’s fun to sing the songs. The ALA might be obnoxious, but that doesn’t mean your local library is. I’d wager there is a world of difference between my local suburban neighborhood in the bible belt and a library in San Francisco. And a public library is accountable for the community is serves, not the ALA. You don’t like something, lobby your local government, to heck with the ALA. (Why has federalism and the 10th amendment and the concept of local control been tossed out the window? It’s a really good idea.) Of course, that does mean you need to be informed about what’s going on in your library, but that’s not impossible, either.
I can understand that, Anne-Marie! Our library is great, but I’ve heard stories of some that aren’t so great. We have one that has materials from Answers in Genesis which surprised me. They truly have a broad range of books for just about any persuasion…you just have to look and know which of the libraries in the system to go to.
I like to mark up books, too. I check them out and after a scan of them, I’ll buy them if they are that kind of book. Not for the kids, though. We go through too many a week…that and it is our primary source of videos for family movies.
I LOVE our library. It is one of the programs the government gets partially right at least.
However, I think there is room for public access private libraries as well and I wish there were more of them. I just read about one recently and have been inspired to start planning my own.
Our local library doesn’t have my favorite books on the shelf, but they do have them to request (from other locations). They have just about every Christian book we’ve ever wanted to read. And if they don’t have it, they’ll either inter-library loan it for us for free, OR, they’ll order it and have a copy at the library that we can check out. I love going to the library!
Like previous posters said, it would have to be something drastic before I would ever stop using the library.
I’m just chiming in while eating my afternoon muffin, and I haven’t even time to read through all the comments, so maybe I’m just saying what others have said…
Entitlement? Heavens no! Are we entitled to roads and EMTs?
Maybe we should talk about the govt paying for everyone to switch over to digital TV.
I presently don’t use the library, but that is because I am the Queen of Library Fines and I probably single-handedly funded that huge new three-story building the Allen County library built a couple of years ago
You know that Shel Silverstein poem? It’s about me. So my husband informed me that he would rather buy books that we are going to keep than pay library fines, which makes sense, and so I do without.
I do miss it though. I love the atmosphere of the library, and just being able to while away an afternoon browsing the stacks.
Libraries, as I have known them, are the most user-friendly, user-driven operations in the land. Maybe the ALA has some sort of agenda, but what really determines what is on the shelves is WHAT GETS CHECKED OUT AND REQUESTED. Libraries track how many times each book is checked out, rechecked by the same patron, even simply pulled from the shelf but not checked out, all for the purpose of culling out unused books and selecting new ones their readers will use and enjoy. Every time you handle a library book, you are casting a vote. So the worst thing we could do in terms of keeping quality material on the shelves, is to stop using the library. If Christians, homeschoolers, and literature lovers cease to use libraries, they will quickly become morasses of twaddle and trash.
I have a love/hate relationship with our local library. There are things that really bother me about it and things that are fantastic about it. If the balance were to shift too much to the former, I could see us choosing to limit our use of it.
I hate our local library. We still go, though.
I hate it because they never have anything we need. Quite frankly, they DON’T listen to the homeschool community. And, a lot of homeschoolers in our community have stopped going to the library. I didn’t go to the library for over a year.
I buy 90% of the books we use. I have a huge library, and am constantly lending books to people. A couple of my friends and I have been talking about opening a “library” just in our small circle so that we won’t have to buy as many books.
Any time I suggest a book to the library, they just tell me thanks, but no thanks. Since many of these books are books that are recommended by multiple homeschooling sources, you would think they would be in high demand. But, the library is focused on filling its shelves with graphic novels (which I don’t really have a problem with-it just isn’t helping me). Plus, they just built a new library. About a third of the floor space is taken up by computers. Only 5 of those computers have the library catalog on them, and only one of those is in the kids’ section. All the rest are for the internet. There are 16 computers in the kids’ section alone. 8 are for internet and 8 are for games. Seriously, I feel that I’m wasting my library fines.
I just found out that our library doesn’t even have “Pilgrim’s Progress” in the original language. Ugh!
Wow. You can get that free online, though.
Even more thankful for our library system now!
I did know that. But, the kiddo doesn’t like to read on the computer. Can’t say I blame him.
And, it’s cheaper to buy it than print it.
I’m not the only one? I have absolutely nothing against the local library and think it’s a wonderful resource. But I don’t use it. We have a fantastic used bookstore and a monthly book sale where I can get great books for a quarter so I just spend the money I’d give to the library in fine in building our home library.
That and I’m lazy. Using the library takes more care and organizational skills then I’m willing to commit to it for the time being.
But I don’t get the entitlement argument. It seems to me to be backing away so far from something for the sake of dogmatic ideals that that you step of and tumble down the cliff.
Ooh, Dawn, I may have to come for a visit. But I think hubby would be less than pleased. He shakes his head at my growing book collection as it is.
My dh, who has Superpowers that I cannot explain, nor do I care to, just bought me a 5′x5′x5′ 900 lb box of books for $55 from some warehouse. So- who wants to come over and help me sort them out?
Great discussion. I love our local library (and use it constantly), staffed with at least a few lovely Christian women who go out of their way to acquire books I recommend. No complaints here, and I guess I don’t really get the entitlement argument, though in other situations I totally get it.